Opinions needed on potential table saw purchase

[M Toupin]

I'll take a different tack from Fred. My gut feeling is t's a newer saw, 1982 to 1993 or so, with a pea green paint job. I too find it strange to change out the guts on a 66 unless there was a really bad accident along the way. I can't understand why he didn't paint the entire saw either, but that's just me.

I'm more concerned with the statement:

The top and bottom of the table have been machined flat,

Something smells funny... I can see machining a table top, but there's NO reasonable explanation to machine a bottom of a top. Besides, the only viable way to machine a table that size is with a Blanchard grinder. There's very few places that can handle tables that size and they charge accordingly. Unless there was a major flaw, nobody in their right mind would even consider it. In short, I think the guy is blowing smoke, my opinion obviously. Ask to see a machine shop receipt.

I'd be cautious, find out what's the real born on date, the trunnion color and box color don't coincide. The box is obviously newly painted, might or might not be true to form. The trunnion doesn't appear repainted, why? Is it original? If not, why not? Not that any of this is a fatal flaw, it just might lead you to more work than you anticipated such as replacing bearings that never were. I'd consider fair value accordingly though.

The 3ph motor is really not that big a deal. A VFD, RPC or motor swap will all fix that for about the same cost.

Mike

Almost forgot, Fred, that's a heck of a restore! nice, very nice!

[Fred Woodward]

I'll take a different tack from Fred. My gut feeling is t's a newer saw, 1982 to 1993 or so, with a pea green paint job. I too find it strange to change out the guts on a 66 unless there was a really bad accident along the way. I can't understand why he didn't paint the entire saw either, but that's just me.

I'm more concerned with the statement:



Something smells funny... I can see machining a table top, but there's NO reasonable explanation to machine a bottom of a top. Besides, the only viable way to machine a table that size is with a Blanchard grinder. There's very few places that can handle tables that size and they charge accordingly. Unless there was a major flaw, nobody in their right mind would even consider it. In short, I think the guy is blowing smoke, my opinion obviously. Ask to see a machine shop receipt.

I'd be cautious, find out what's the real born on date, the trunnion color and box color don't coincide. The box is obviously newly painted, might or might not be true to form. The trunnion doesn't appear repainted, why? Is it original? If not, why not? Not that any of this is a fatal flaw, it just might lead you to more work than you anticipated such as replacing bearings that never were. I'd consider fair value accordingly though.

The 3ph motor is really not that big a deal. A VFD, RPC or motor swap will all fix that for about the same cost.

Mike

Almost forgot, Fred, that's a heck of a restore! nice, very nice!

Thanks for the compliment. It was a lot of fun and a very good learning experience.
I was wondering about the bottom machining too. I've never heard of anyone doing that. There are a couple of spots that are machined on the bottom of those tables though. The pictures do look like a Blanchard grind to me and I would think there might be several places in an area like Seattle that would be able to do that. That table grind usually runs ~$100+ per.
The dust door is from a newer machine, the motor cover appears older (not plastic as now), the handwheels and lock knobs are old style. I would guess this was a project saw and made from some older and some newer parts with an older cabinet.
I would look at the arbor and the arbor sheave to guage vintage of that area. Two belt system is new style for the sheave.
I'm thinking this guy bought this saw, 3 phase, rode hard, on the cheaps (check the auctions); put some money into fixing it up to more modern standards (the fence and rails) and is trying to get it all back. It definitely isn't a $1200 saw IMHO for a home shop, as is.
If it were me, I would closely inspect the inside of the saw.
That trunnion swap isn't cheap. Most common failure is the end teeth on the gear for angle adjust get broken off. If the trunnion was dropped when he was rebuilding it shatters pretty easily.
I definitely agree, it's a mixed bag of parts but that alone wouldn't make me walk away from it. I would ask lots of questions, plan on replacing the bearings just because you know for sure it has been done, that's cheap and proactive for a long life and good cutting.

I've seen lots of the older PM66s 3 phase, older rail and fences go for $300-400 in auctions. Add another $400 to restore it and there you go.
I would have given it a matching paint job though.

[Tim Morton]

If it were me i think I would personally pass....but I will also add that I have a 80's vintage PM66 at work and it is the smoothest TS I have ever used.

But by the time you add a motor you will be looking at about 1400 bucks for a saw that is obviously not original. I think you can do better....

[Richard Dragin]

I can see machining a table top, but there's NO reasonable explanation to machine a bottom of a top.

If it was blanchard ground (which it appears to have been) than wouldn't the bottom mounting feet have been ground a bit from sitting on the table? From when I worked at a place that had really big blanchard grinders I recall a bottom table moving and the top stones move as well. Even if the saw table was secured there would have been a little movement on the bottom. It was a long time ago and there are probably a lot of differant grinders but that could explain why the seller feels it was ground on both sides.

[john frank]

Great looking restoration.

[M Toupin]

If it was blanchard ground (which it appears to have been) than wouldn't the bottom mounting feet have been ground a bit from sitting on the table? From when I worked at a place that had really big blanchard grinders I recall a bottom table moving and the top stones move as well. Even if the saw table was secured there would have been a little movement on the bottom. It was a long time ago and there are probably a lot of differant grinders but that could explain why the seller feels it was ground on both sides.

The table of a blanchard grinder does move, though the item being ground is secured to it, it doesn't float freely. Like any machine work the item being machined needs to be secured. This requires some sort of jig to keep the table top reasonably close to the original plane. It's a lot more involved than just throwing the top onto the table and starting the grinder. In short, no, the bottom would not get ground unless it was purposefully setup for grinding.

Mike

[JT Chrstianson]

I'll take a different tack from Fred. My gut feeling is t's a newer saw, 1982 to 1993 or so, with a pea green paint job. I too find it strange to change out the guts on a 66 unless there was a really bad accident along the way. I can't understand why he didn't paint the entire saw either, but that's just me.

I'm more concerned with the statement:



Something smells funny... I can see machining a table top, but there's NO reasonable explanation to machine a bottom of a top. Besides, the only viable way to machine a table that size is with a Blanchard grinder. There's very few places that can handle tables that size and they charge accordingly. Unless there was a major flaw, nobody in their right mind would even consider it. In short, I think the guy is blowing smoke, my opinion obviously. Ask to see a machine shop receipt.

I'd be cautious, find out what's the real born on date, the trunnion color and box color don't coincide. The box is obviously newly painted, might or might not be true to form. The trunnion doesn't appear repainted, why? Is it original? If not, why not? Not that any of this is a fatal flaw, it just might lead you to more work than you anticipated such as replacing bearings that never were. I'd consider fair value accordingly though.

The 3ph motor is really not that big a deal. A VFD, RPC or motor swap will all fix that for about the same cost.

Mike

Almost forgot, Fred, that's a heck of a restore! nice, very nice!

Great points for sure. That's why I posted here in the first place! For that, I thank you all.

From what I was told by the seller, the bottom of the table was machined first as a reference for machining the top. Regarding the color of the base, again, I was told by the seller that he repainted the box with what he believed to be the original color. He also said that he replaced the bearings in the arbor. There is some speculation as to the origin of the color of the trunnion and that is that the trunnion was actually spray painted gold. I'd have to take it apart and inspect it to see if that is so...

There are 3 belts on the drive portion of the saw.

JT

[Jim Heffner]

Fred, I think that price is a little high from where I see it. Sounds more like a $700-$800 saw, especially with the added expense of having to
change out that motor, another $300-400 added to the total. You said something about new bearings, so what? They aren't that expensive anyway...it is the labor to remove and install them that makes them
expensive or so it seems.

I would try and haggle with on the price...if he is set on the price and won't budge...walk, and let him keep it! They always told me " money
talks, bull s*** walks." Don't be sold on the very first one!

[JT Chrstianson]

The deal breaker has finally arrived... I have looked high and low for a motor that will work with this saw and can find nothing that costs less than around $400. That would put the price of the saw at around $1,500, plus switch gear. Are there any other leads out there on less expensive motors or other alternatives before I bail on this saw?

Take care,

JT

[Scott Donley]

There has been a PM 66, 3HP 1PH on Seattle CL for 950 the last couple of days. Also A 3HP1PH Uni or PM motor (I forget) for 235 also on CL.

Just checked and could not find the 66, it was there this morning, honest !

[JT Chrstianson]

I've found a couple of motors here and there. Comments?

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-3-HP-Leeson-...QQcmdZViewItem

http://www.amazon.com/3450RPM-C-Face...2396618&sr=1-1

JT

[Jim Solomon]

Nice saw Fred. I know what you mean about the looooong fence rails. Mine came with them, but I don't cut enough sheet goods to justify the space taken. On the other hand. I can mount my router on the extension table and do away with my router cabinet. Too bad you don't live in Pa. JT. My friend has a PM66 (green) with the ci extension tables. 1 1/2 hp for 900.00. It's a nice saw smooth and tight.
Jim

[CPeter James]

I bought this one used for $1,000. It came with the big table that surrounds it and the little cabinet to store blades ect. The sliding table and blade guard were NOT in the deal. Thesaw was was in good to very good condition. It is a '92 vintage and I bought it 3 years ago.



CPeter

[JT Chrstianson]

I emailed the seller of the saw about the cost of a replacement motor. Hopefully he will realize why no one has bought it yet and drop the price down to a more reasonable $700-$800 bucks.

[Eric Haycraft]

Why do you need a new motor for it? Can't you just pick up a phase converter for 1-200 bucks?
http://grizzly.com/products/Static-P...-to-4-HP/G5841 There are others that are cheaper..but this was fastest to find online.