Which Felder model?

[Ben Brownbrwn]

Thank you all so much, fellas. I waited to get enough inputs now I have made my decision. I will go the Separates as for as the Saw and Shaper a Combo for J/P. But Is there any problem with the Felder band saw machines? I will add the mortiser six months hence. I had already watched the video posted on the Felder website and even have the brochure. Step two. Contact Felder.

[Brad Shipton]

Look over all the accessories you want too. You might want to order it all at once and beware, they add up quickly.

Brad

[Al Killian]

If you do go wit a combo machine, Get a extra spindle. My woodmaster came with one spindle and I had to change the moulding heads for the planer heads. This became a headache, so I orderd a extra spindle. Now my planer head stays in one and the opther is for moulding blades. I have one more comeing as there are two mouldings that I always seem to be makeing.

[Steve Rowe]

Ben,
It is my understanding that the Felder BS are made by ACM. This is the same company that makes the higher end Laguna BS as well as the former Bridgewood BS. There is nothing wrong with these saws. I never got the perception that Felder was all that interested in pushing machinery that they don't actually manufacture whether it be the BS, sanders, or edgebanders, etc. Several years ago, I was looking at edge sanders and Felder encouraged me to look at the ACM which happens to be the manufacturer of the Felder edge sander. It seems as if they want to have the appearance of a one stop shop but, don't seem to want to bother with it at the same time. Why? Anyones guess is as good as mine.
Steve

[Ben Brownbrwn]

Thanks Steve. That was a good input. I will look at other BS before I take the plunge in a Felder.

[Harold Eubank]

Hi Ben: I read your post about combo machines and thought I might throw my two cents in. I own a BF7-41 with the 7' (approx.) sliding table. I have had the machine for 7-8 years and wish I had the separate units. I do woodworking in spurts as a hobby and find the constant back and forth to be a pain in the (expletive deleted). I also had to deal with separating the machine (it does come apart) to get it into my basement shop. That in and of itself was a major issue as there is no such thing as a light weight Felder. When it was reassembled, something I did myself, the machine had to be realigned in all three axis. My Felder rep at the time came to my shop and spent most of the day with precision 3' Starrett straight edges to get it where it was uasable. Although its very close to this very day I don't think its still as good as it should be. One of my very real nightmares is going to be moving this machine out of my basement when I am too old to continue woodworking.
In any case I have found the unit to be quite high quality but as you are well aware, it carries a price. Hope this info will help with you decision and hopefully, if you buy the CF7-41, you do not have to separate the machine.

[Dirk Boehmer]

Hello Ben,

I would prefer solo machines. A combination machine needs
a lot of room around it. Seperate machines can be spread over
the room. With mobile bases you are very flexible.

A second argument for seperate machines. For every job on
a combination machine you have to configure it new.

BTW:
You can download the 850MB video demo directly from Felder.
There you can see all features of the combination how a
german woodworker is building an office desk.

http://kassel.felder-gruppe.at/video...Kombimaschinen

--
Dirk

[Ned Bark]

2 questions

I too have the same initial question as you. I watched Felder demonstrate the 741s out at AWF in Vegas and I was pleased with what I saw. I AM cramped for space and the combination seems ideal for me. I have a wood mizer, a solar kiln, and my main use would be squaring up rough lumber. I cut 2500 bd ft of walnut alone last year. The 16" jointer would be a godsend, as would the heavy duty saw. I hate losing a good number of 12" wide boards, I have fudged getting a good intial face with a makeshift sled on my existing 12 planer, but it is less than satisfactory and time consuming. I end up ripping a lot of incredible lumber into 6" stock which I can handle with a 6" Powermatic jointer..

I do custom cabinet work on the side and as stated, the addtl cost of around 3 grand for the shaper is by far more cost effective than pursuing a stand alone shaper of similar quality (which I would really be tight space wise to begin with) I started woodworking in the 70's with a Shopsmith, so I learned early on how to plan for efficiency. Even with best plans though, at time I cursed the multi set up at times.

One aspect that I have not read on this thread has to do with MASS. The sheer 2000 pound plus, would seem to play a significant role in vibration damping and such.

The second question is what is being used as a motor generator or source for three phase power. Any specific recommendations?

Brand new here ... my first post. I've arleady experienced a wealth of info.
Thanks all

[John Harden]

Happy Felder owner here who wrestled with the same issues the OP is.

I had seperates and wanted to save space and upgrade qualtiy and capacities.

Ultimately, I went with the KF700SP saw/shaper and a seperate AD741 J/P. My reasoning was this gave me some distinct advantages over the full combo.

1. KF700SP uses the monstrous rip fence off the 900 series machines, which I much preferred over the design of the fence on the full combo that you switch back and forth from saw to J/P.
2. While it is true you can seperate out the J/P from a full combo, it is not recommended by Felder. Clunky, and you'll need an umbilical as the main switch on the saw unit must still be set to which functionality you want.
3. If space ever does become an issue, I can orient my seperates so that they take up just about the same small footprint as the full combo.

Perhaps the best advice I can give you is to visit the shops of owners check out the tools, and most of all, choose your machine options VERY carefully. I did research and talked to owners for 2-3 months before making a purchase. Many, if not most people who later sell their Felder/MM units do so to upgrade machine features that they wish they'd gotten the first time around.

You can always add doo-dads like extension tables, different or supplemental shaper fences, or attachments later. Adding in VS motors, electric height adjustment, longer or shorter slider, etc., can be done, but it is very expensive and may even require a visit from a technician. $

I wavered a bit on the 3 phase, VS motors for the saw/shaper, but now am REALLY glad I got them. No belt changes on the shaper. Just turn the dial to the approrpriate setting. This means I'm much more likely to actually use the correct speed setting. Also makes it much easier to FIND the correct speed setting for the combination of tooling, cut, and wood species I am machining.

It also comes in handy on the saw as there's really no need to spin that huge 12" blade at max speed. Dial it down to about 2/3 and it still has the same tip speed as a 10" blade, cuts just as well, and best of all is a LOT quieter.

Best of all, they only require single phase input and use an built in VFD controller to power the 3 phase motors. Sweet!!!!

I'm not a real heavy user of my shaper, so a saw/shaper combo was fine for me. Electric height adjustment makes changovers very quick. You'll save significant dollars (and space) by combining these two options. This is where a shop visit comes in handy. Have the owner let you do changeovers yourself 2-3 times. You'll get the hang of it pretty quickly. This will help you decide if this would work for you. The shaper fence and head assembly is cast aluminum and I find it very maneagable, despite being 5'9" and not the body builder type.

I'm surprised at the comment by the fellow who had trouble with his Big Lift/PF setup. I have the same rig and it raises and lowers the 150 lb. PF effortlessly. Key is to find the correct orientation for the PF, then mark the locations on it with a sharpie so you can quickly return to them when it is time to lift or lower. Easy, one handed operation.

My Felder rep was no pressure and will help guide you through machine and accessory options. He had excellent input and saved me money, while offering excellent suggestions on things I hadn't thought of, including some options that are not really necessary.

What would I now do differently? Believe it or not, I'd give more consideration to the 20" J/P, versus my 16".

In any event, good luck with whatever you ultimately choose.

EDIT: Another piece of advice. Consider the 30mm shaper spindle over the 1 1/4". You can use 1 1/4" heads on a 30mm spindle with a spacer, but not vice versa. Could be an issue if you either own or get a future deal on some 30mm tooling. I got the 1 1/4" spindle and wish I had gotten the 30mm.

Regards,

John

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Ned, I have a 741 Pro. I completely agree with most everything that John mentioned, but we diverge on the choice of machine.

I picked a full combo because of space mainly. The layout of my space would dictate the planer/jointer to be put in the same arrangement as they are in a combo anyhow, so why not put them together? I never have problems with the planer being in the way of the saw/shaper. My work flow is predictably linear enough that the sequence always eliminates any changeovers from planer to saw. That change takes all of 30 seconds BTW.

I decided that because the bulk of the material being handled on a slider is left of the blade, the table size afforded by the j/p is perfectly adequate. It also gives me the ability to swing the power feeder over the jointer to face joint. I LOVE that feature! I do agree that the rip fence on the 700 is nicer, but the rip fence is certainly not the most used part of my machine, and the 741's is pretty good.

I originally thought that the shaper on my machine would be rarely used, but to have a full featured shaper so easily accessible has proven to be used a lot more than I expected. I have both 30mm and 1 1/4" spindles. They don't cost that much, and it's nice to just yank a setup spindle and cutter to swap to a different profile occasionally. One point of advice, the extra long spindles will not lower enough to sink completely into the table, so make sure you order the length that you need. I can't imagine why anything longer than standard would be needed. I also do use the tilt. Like John said, get power raise and lower though. I did not, wish I had.

Good luck!

[John Harden]

BTW, if you listen to that Rozmiarek guy, it'll add $10K to the cost of your machinery. Of course his observations and recommendations are spot on, but nevertheless, every time he posted a message in my thread, it cost me $1000......

Consider yourself warned!!!

[Steve Rozmiarek]

BTW, if you listen to that Rozmiarek guy, it'll add $10K to the cost of your machinery. Of course his observations and recommendations are spot on, but nevertheless, every time he posted a message in my thread, it cost me $1000......

Consider yourself warned!!!

LOL! Sorry John!

[Steve Rowe]

I'm surprised at the comment by the fellow who had trouble with his Big Lift/PF setup. I have the same rig and it raises and lowers the 150 lb. PF effortlessly. Key is to find the correct orientation for the PF, then mark the locations on it with a sharpie so you can quickly return to them when it is time to lift or lower. Easy, one handed operation.

John,
I am the guy that had the problem. My setup was with a CF741SP and is quite different from your KF700. On your setup, to lower the PF, you probably have the horizontal arm perpendicular to the blade. You have a very short moment arm to overcome when you orient this in your configuration. With the CF, you cannot do it this way because the jointer table gets in the way. Try putting the horizontal arm of your PF along the blade axis and positioning the power feeder such that it doesn't interfere with anything. Then try to lower or raise your power feeder. I think you will experience the same problem. It is unique to the CF series machine.
Steve

[John Harden]

John,
I am the guy that had the problem. My setup was with a CF741SP and is quite different from your KF700. On your setup, to lower the PF, you probably have the horizontal arm perpendicular to the blade. You have a very short moment arm to overcome when you orient this in your configuration. With the CF, you cannot do it this way because the jointer table gets in the way. Try putting the horizontal arm of your PF along the blade axis and positioning the power feeder such that it doesn't interfere with anything. Then try to lower or raise your power feeder. I think you will experience the same problem. It is unique to the CF series machine.
Steve

Aaaahhhhh, I see. Good point. Yup, the ideal orientation for my PF horizontal arm is just about perpindicular to the blade. If I move it further back towards the rear of the saw, it becomes much more difficult to raise or lower.

Have you asked the folks on FOG what the solution (if any) is? I'm wondering if a shorter, longer or different resistance hydraulic cylinder would make a difference?

Regards,

John

[Rick Potter]

Gee, I wonder where Fontucky is?

Rick Potter