Is it possible to create a database with all corel datas?

[Christian Kaplan]

Hi all,
I think last night at work that it is fine to create a database with all corel datas in this forum?

what do you think?

[Doug Griffith]

Not a bad idea if you mean watt/power/speed/material/etc... I'm a database programmer and could do it quite easilly with a website front end that sits on my server. I'm curious if others think this is a good idea? A large amount of user data might mean something and be helpful.

Cheers

[Uma Duffy]

Tell us more about what sorts of info would be included in this database....sounds like it might be another ultimate resource that we can't do without.

[Micheal Donnellan]

What about converting speeds between machines
you say 100% speed 50% power for a 30W
to me that 25% Power but no idea what speed is as What is you machines speed in IPS or MMPS
A database of info for different materials would allow us a better chance to get stuff done quicker rather than having to but test files to find the power range that works.

[Doug Griffith]

Off the top of my head, I would include fields for entering:
1) machine type
2) wattage
3) material
4) raster or engrave
5) speed
6) power
7) frequency
8) units of measure
9) protective coating on or off???
10) manufacturer???

The data would be entered by visitors. I could apply formulas to it for converting between machines, etc... I'm guessing it would evolve into something useful.

I could even make it a tool for storing settings on a customer level. I've done it before for both wire edm and mixing pantone ink systems.

[Ricky Gore]

Sounds like a great idea to me. I am always wondering what settings to use. By the way, soap doesn't engrave very well.

[Christian Kaplan]

And what about the Corel Dates. Like for glass samples, wood samples........ I mean the .cdr .

[Scott Shepherd]

I think it's a lot more complicated than that. For instance, the graphic being engraved plays a very important role. If you're doing 4pt text the settings will be different than if you're doing 3" tall letters. If you're doing a complex, detailed graphic versus something simple.

You can easily see speed and power settings for the same wattage vastly vary for those types of things.

Also, there are some different settings on different types of machines that do or don't mean anything to other people. For example, the Universal systems used something called "Image Density" to describe the DPI in the Y-Axis. So you can set the DPI in the X and Y independently. Depending on what that image density is set at also makes a difference in speed/power.

There are a lot of variables you'd have to know to do it right. I seem to recall a recent thread about recommendations for a specific material. I think I posted 23 power and someone else came on and said they use 60 power all the time. Who's right? Which one do you use? There's a huge difference between 23 and 60. If you have that kind of range, then you're better off just looking in your manual and starting at the starting point, in my opinion.

I think it can be done, but it's a heck of a lot more complicated and involved that just speed/power/material settings (in my opinion).

[Angus Hines]

This sounds like a idea that might be a great resource, but like Scott mentioned, I think the variables are going to make it a daunting task at best.
I mean even between 2 - 60w machines from the same MFG. you are going to have things that match and things that are very diffrent between the 2.

[George D Gabert]

I think that the data base is good as a basic starting point. I do not own a laser wet (but hope to soon) and have a good understanding of the computer requirements, the laser operating requirements, but no idea where to start in the materials department.

Also this data base may also give some examples of the type of materials and relative thickness that can be processed by other people on the laser. This may inspire other ways to process jobs with different materials.

Hopefully the data base will give guidelines as to what is not possible with their laser power settings.

[Christian Kaplan]

I Think we must do this! Because it`s a way to help us all!!!!!!
So let`s start to realise it!

[Rodne Gold]

Personally , I think this is a waste of time , even my manufacturers settings are relatively useless. Apart from the fact that no laser's tube ratings are spot on , there are huge variances in materials nationally and internationally.
A far better way to determine settings is experimentation and an understanding of what the laser actually does to the material.
There are far too many variables to make this data base universal to us all , at best one might create a starting point database for a particular model of a particular wattage.
A better idea might be to make a database of various materials and how they react to a laser beam and based on the effects , the user can then make a choice of where to start.
For example if you take anodised aluminium , you have 2 choices , either to leach the dyes used which requires low power and high speed or to blast the material and ablate some of the surface to create an "engraving" but the material will overburn , IE you wont get white engraving. One can also look at dpi vs heat affected zones and depth for other materials. For example wood , if engraved properly by a laser , will normally have almost no contrast as one vaporises the material and this in theory should leave no heat affected zone. The way to get the burnt look is actually to engrave it improperly , ie to create a heat affected zone and allow resins to melt and char. so if one knows that overburning wood will give contrast , one would use a high dpi and a slow speed with a high power. So in essence , the best way to approach a useful database is to rather give a general overview of the material and how it responds to power, dpi, spot size etc than to give any specific "recipe" .
There is no easy way in this regard, we have all had to go thru the trial and error process as to exact settings on our machines and this is really the only way to get it right and minimise cycle times and give the best results.

[Dan Hintz]

Rodne,

You make some very good points, but I believe this is exactly why the database should be created. I see nothing wrong with including a "Notes" section tied to each material listing exactly the type of information you mention (such as wood being a "reverse" case, where you want to actually let the material burn for a good image). Glass would include notes on the laser creating microfractures in the material, etc. A "Results" column would give specific examples of what to expect... in the case of wood where the power and dpi is high and the speed slow, the result would be charred wood, providing image contrast.

While it's true that no two lasers will be exact, the mere ability to get someone in the ballpark (particularly to materials they've never worked with) is a great boon. If five people get five different results trying five different methods, and two of those methods turn out pleasant results, they should be added as separate items with appropriate notes. Settings could also be marked as coming from machines that were measured for true output power, giving a confidence level. A checkbox could add/remove any measurements not from a qualified system, again, increasing the confidence level. I'd happily rent a meter for a few days to increase the accuracy of the data in the chart... you can buy them for a few hundred off of the web these days, no reason you couldn't rent one for under $100 and know exactly what you have. This would not only increase the accuracy of the database data, but it would make sure any changes you make for your own cuts are based upon an accurate view of your own laser.

I'm not saying the job will be easy, but for everyone to dismiss it out of hand simply because it will take longer than half a day to get reasonable accuracy out of is a disservice to us all. I say go for it.

[Scott Shepherd]

Dan, I think if anyone knows what's involved, it's Rodne. He has more experience with lasers than just about anyone here.

Also, this data is already included with most of the brand names machines. The Epilog has a book that lists a variety of materials with starting points for settings for all different wattage machines. The ULS systems have a material database built into them, so you can just pick the material and it'll get you off and running. So there already exists a starting point for most people who have lasers.

I'm not knocking the effort, if you want to do it, knock yourself out, but don't kid yourself on the value of the data. There are just too many variables. Even between model years, drive systems change and machines get faster. So 100S 50P on a 1997 model laser is not the same as 100S 50P on a 2008 model.

There's a huge difference in 100S on Trotec and 100S on a Chinese laser. How do you plan to make that correction?

Too many unknowns to make it a table with integrity in my opinion.

[Dan Hintz]

There's a huge difference in 100S on Trotec and 100S on a Chinese laser. How do you plan to make that correction?

There should be entries for correction factors. Just as you would adjust power on a 60W laser to be 50% of that used on a 30W laser, you would determine the adjustment factor for speed in the same manner. If machine 'A' is capable of 100ips and machine 'B' is capable of 50ips, you have a 2:1 conversion factor...entered easily enough into a cell to modify all other values. We're not talking a static table here, we're talking about one that will dynamically change the values based upon entered data (if you've used PhotoGrav before, you understand the concept of choosing a particular machine to adjust the variables). In that same vein, you could easily have laser model numbers and data for them (speed, power, etc.) that could be quickly selected and automatically adjust the main table.

You seem to make the assumption that most out there are using US-made machines with these menus built in or have been doing this for half of their life. I'm sure you realize there are a surprising number of Chinese laser owners out there, and due to low price and high availability the ownership base is growing quickly. For many it really is tough to pass up a $1k laser when a similar US-made model approaches ten times that amount.

My microwave has a 'popcorn' button, but I'll be damned if I've ever come across a bag of popcorn that popped as much as possible without burning. I normally punch in 5 minutes on high and start listening after 3:30. Baselines are nice if you already know what you're doing... baselines are indispensable if you don't.