New Member, First of Many Questions....

[Justin Jump]

Hello all, new member here….

First, my apologies for asking questions that I am sure have been asked a thousand times over, I have been reading many different posts for weeks, and thought it was a good time to introduce myself.

After years of pulling cars in and out of the garage to work on my projects, I convinced the wife last year to let me build a new garage – pic attached.

As you can see, it is a 2 Story, 2 Car garage, and YES, the upstairs is the workshop!!

It measures out to be just about 22’ x 22’ on the inside….

Let me first explain where I am at, and what will be my first of many questions…..

The picture is @ 3 weeks old, so I am a bit further along that the pic shows, I am basically the point of completing the rough wiring, and rough wiring inspection will be next.

I chose to go the route of upgrading the house service to 200 amps and just running all new wires out to the garage and workshop. My panel is only 12 feet away, so I did not go with a sub panel.

I have all the 110v circuits wired, and 2 separate circuits for the lights for the workshop, and a 110v to the bottom half for a couple outlets in the garage, and a 30 amp to the bottom half for the air compressor – which reminds me, I cannot wait to work upstairs, while the compressor is downstairs with 14 inches of floor trusses and R-30 insulation between me and the noise!!

So – this leads me to my first round of questions. I want a decent workshop, not a professional, but I do not want cheap equipment either, the biggest items I can think off, and have been planning for are a table saw, dust collection, shaper, router, band saw, drill press, and much surface area.

So, with those pieces of equipment in mind, I would like to try to narrow it down to a couple models, so that I can finish my rough electric accordingly. I would hate to get this all roughed in, drywall, etc, and find out I didn’t not plan for the table saw or so, and have to run conduit for wiring.

Therefore, some recommendations on equipment, table saw, dust collection, etc would be most helpful…..I can only read through so many more posts, or visit the Rockler and Grizzly websites before I start asking questions.

My plans for the future would lead into small cabinetry and maybe even kitchen cabinets eventually ( I have read the Would I do it Again posts on this!)

Again, thanks for letting me in, apologize in advance for asking some many repeat question, and thanks in advance for the advice!!


JJ in Pittsburgh
photo.jpg

[Jerome Hanby]

I'm no expert, but I have something of the same setup and I can tell you what I have planned. I'm attaching two four bulb florescent fixtures to the wiring currently used by two woefully inadequate incandescent fixtures that hug the ceiling about 30 feet overhead. I'm running one 120 Volt circuit to drive 6 additional 4 bulb units on a separate switch. All the fixtures will be hanging on long chains to get them to a height that I can at least reach with my ladder. I'm running two (the same two) 120 volt circuits down each wall to drive about three outlets on each wall, one circuit driving all the top outlets, the other driving all the bottom ones. It's a one man shop and I figure my worst load will be one tool and one roll around dust collector. I'm also running two 240 volt circuits, one for the big (well bigger) dust collector and one for the Unisaw when I get it into service (plus any 240 volt goodies I find as good CL deals).

[Ed Hazel]

The only guarantee is that your plans will change. I am not a electrical expert but I would recommend a sub panel. when I built my shop I had 1 220 outlet know I have 7 I also put 110 receptacles every 4 feet at about 50 inches off the floor.

[Don Jarvie]

JJ, run some 220 outlets throughout the shop at least a couple on each wall. While you have a good size space 22x22 isn't huge so tools will need to be mobile and it helps if you can move them all around.

I have a my TS and assembly table as one in the center (20x20). Make sure you position it to rip long pieces at least 7 ft or have it so you can open the doors to rip.

As for equipment, if you have the budget go new but a better bang for your buck is used. If you are fairly handy you can by tools that need some fixing up and take the money and put it to more tools. My only advice is to buy the best tools you can afford and wait until you can afford high quality.

[Jack Parks]

Justin,

Congratulations on getting the dedicated shop. You will enjoy being able to just walk in and start working and when you get tired just turn the lights off and walk out. A couple of things you should consider are:

1. Install a subpanel in the shop and just run one feeder from the 200A on the house.

2. Install more 120V receptacles than you think you will need and make them 20A circuits. Make sure you place them high enough on the wall to allow a workbench to fit under them. I think I mounted mine at 42".

3. Install a 240V receptacle in the floor where you plan to use your table saw. You can also use a 120V receptacle in the same place. You should be able to install more than one 240V receptacle per circuit because in a one man shop you will normally only use one machine at a time.

4. Install at least one receptacle in the ceiling near the center of your shop and mount a 12ga power cord reel. You'll be amazed how convenient it is to just reach up and grab the cord to power a handheld power tool.

5. For lighting I used round lighting boxes with keyless lamp fixtures that have a receptacle built in laid out in a gereral pattern. In the fixture I used 150 watt equivalent CFL lamps for general lighting. I then mounted T8 fluorescent fixtures where I needed them for task lighting and plugged them into the keyless lamp fixtures.

6. Since your shop is on the second floor run your dust collection ductwork in the floor. This will make it easy to setup your table saw, jointer, ect.

7. I suggest you use something like OSB for the walls in your shop instead of drywall. If you paint the OSB it should meet code requirements. You can then mount things to the wall anywhere you need and if you install the OSB with screws you can get back into the walls later if you need to add more electrical.

8. Insulate the shop well and you'll be able to enjoy it year-round with the right heating and cooling system.

There is a lot to think about when you build a shop but the time you spend planning will save you time when building your projects in the future.

Jack

[Sam Layton]

Hi Justin, welcome to the creek, it is a pleasure to meet you.

Your shop addition looks great. You have received a lot of good ideas. I will list a few things that I Incorporated in my shop.

Insulate well, and prior to dry wall add 1/2" sound board. It is not expensive and helps a lot.

It is hard to place your equipment. After you use your shop, you will move things to accommodate your needs. That being said, run plenty of electric. I have 110, and 220 about every 4' around my shop. Also I have 110, and 220 in the ceiling. I plug my table saw, jointer, and planer, in the ceiling. They are not next to a wall. Run dedicated lines to the air compressor, dust collector, etc.

Don't forget air. Run air lines throughout your shop including in the ceiling.

As far as tools, buy the best you can afford. Don't be afraid to buy used. Take your time, and you can find great tools used. If you buy used, a Powermatic 66 is a great saw. New, I don't know. Dust collector, I would buy a cyclone. Shaper, 3 to 5 HP. Band saw, as big as you can get. If you want to use a carbide blade you have to have a saw that can tension such a blade. I learned this the hard way... Drill press, floor model, long stroke, no run out. Routers, I think I have about 10. PC, Dewalt, Bosch, etc, all are good, one better for one operation than the other. You can't have to many routers.

Good luck, keep up posted on your progress, Sam

[Kent A Bathurst]

Justin -

Howdy. Welcome to the gang. Welcome also to the slippery slope. See you further on down the hill shortly.

You will have plenty of info coming your way. Sometimes too much, but that's OK - you can get a feel for different viewpoints.

I will also take a second to make my standard non-confrontational pitch: In the back of your mind, keep track of what you think the value of the Creek has been to you as you progress, then, when you cross the $6 hurdle, send it in to become a Contributor. Keep the engine fueled, as it were.

Good luck. Post updated photos of your shop when you can - looks terrific so far!!

[Justin Jump]

All -

Thanks for all the good advice so far.....

To the one about OSB on the walls - I had originally wanted to go this route, but the local ordinance wouldnt allow it......Long story short, I had originally wanted to build a seperate shop that would have been considered an "accessory structure", but after 3-4 attemps kept getting rejected, or could not be done due to sewer line setback, rear property percentage coverage, etc, I had to "attach" the new garage/workshop to the house. Now, I spereated it because of windows, and I did not want any common walls, but I got a nice covered breezeway connecting the new garage to the old one. Needless to say, since this is now considered part of the main structure, the inspector said I cannot put OSB on the second story walls. Quite frankly - I think he is full of cra....I cannot find this anywhere in the 2009 IRC, or in any of the local ordinances.

I didnt even think about a 220 line on the floor for the table saw - I like this.....

I have a good plan for the air lines, though I could use some advice for how to make them look nice coming through the walls or floor. Probably just a 1/2" escutcheon cover or something....

The table saw in the middle with the assembly table next to it is something I am interested in, any one have any pics of their setup?

Thanks again!!

[Alan Schaffter]

I won't go over what has already been suggested, but since I also have a shop over my garage, I'll make some suggestions.



Due to your lot you can access your shop and don't need one of these to get heavy stuff up and down:





I think everyone will agree, like clamps, your shop can never have enough floor space. If you can, put your compressor and dust collection in the garage. Run DC ducting and air lines along the garage ceiling and punch through where you need to. That gives you more room in your shop, makes it look neater, and reduces the DC noise. Also, I don't like typical, surface-mount floor outlets, they get it the way, collect dust, etc. I recessed a wood box in the floor and added a hinged lid. Inside is a junction box with two 330V female pigtails where I plug in my TS and jointer- no dust get in any receptacles, plus I made the box large enough so it holds the excess cord.

[Don Jarvie]

Alan got me thinking. If you have room in your garage add some shelving for wood storage in there. Freeing up wall space to put tools against will make the shop bigger.

Don

[Justin Jump]

Alan, could you share some more pics of your dust collection setup? Or point to me to a good thread about that.....

I used 14" engineered floor trusses, so I have plenty of room in the floor to run ductwork for dust collection. I used 2x6 construction, so I could run 4" up the wall if I had to.

My basic questions would be what size and how did you ground the ductwork? My original plan was to use a wall mount unit on the shop floor, and just run hoses to the machines, but after seeing your setup, I like the idea of having in the floor.

I have low head room though in the first floor garage, so I will have to tuck my duct work into the engineered floor truss, not a big issue, I will just have to figue this out before insulation goes in, I plan on using spray foam for in here

[Alan Schaffter]

Alan, could you share some more pics of your dust collection setup? Or point to me to a good thread about that.....

Here is a link to a video tour of my dust collection system. It focuses on my autogates and sorry it is rather long, but it shows other components. Here are more pics and a description of my shop.

I used 14" engineered floor trusses, so I have plenty of room in the floor to run ductwork for dust collection. I used 2x6 construction, so I could run 4" up the wall if I had to.

I would avoid 4" since it won't flow enough CFM in many installations. While it may be fine for very short runs and the size DC you start with, if you are like many folks you'll end up getting a larger DC's where 6" ductwork (all the way to the machine) is essential. Remember if you run ducting in the floor joist or wall stud cavities, you don't have insulation there. You will likely need to have insulation and drywall installed in the garage ceiling to get your final inspection. Also, it may be smart to install your DC and ducting after final inspection, because some DC ducting runs may run afoul of code.

My basic questions would be what size and how did you ground the ductwork? My original plan was to use a wall mount unit on the shop floor, and just run hoses to the machines, but after seeing your setup, I like the idea of having in the floor.

As mentioned above I use 6" almost everywhere. It is PCV S&D (ASTM 2729) which has thinner walls and is less expensive, especially the fittings, than standard Sched 40 PVC or metal. There are a lot of threads here about it and where to find it. Grounding is totally unnecessary. There are things you can do to reduce local static discharge nuisance to your body, but PVC is a non-conductor so it essentially can't be grounded. Static is a non-issue with regards to home shop DC duct fire or explosion for a number of reasons. Read this.

I have low head room though in the first floor garage, so I will have to tuck my duct work into the engineered floor truss, not a big issue, I will just have to figure this out before insulation goes in, I plan on using spray foam for in here

How low? You don't need the headroom required of a living space. Frankly unless you are trying to park an RV in there, you don't need much headroom in a garage.

[Justin Jump]

Thanks for the links Alan......

Yes, I will nedd 5/8" Type X drywall on the ceiling, and in fact, I just called my Inspector to get a feel for what he might want to see as far as the dust collection ductwork goes...

Basically, he said don't do it......This is the same township not letting me use OSB for the walls of the workshop. He basically said if i do something not on the prints I used to get the permit, it can't be there. I guess Technically he is right, but still, it's just some PVC for dust collection....

Due to the 14" engineerd floor truss, my height is only 7'6" in the garage below, had to get a low head room 7' garage door....By the way, the workshop itself on the second floor has cathedrial ceilings up to 10'

[Jack Parks]

Justin,

When I built my home shop it had one interior light and receptacle and one exterior light and receptacle. I basically got my permit for a 32x40 storage building. After I got my CO I finished the shop. The problem with building codes is the interpretation of the inspector. BTW, I also used OSB on some walls of my service department for my business and the inspector allowed it as long as we painted it. We could not have bare wood exposed.

Jack

[Alan Schaffter]

Thanks for the links Alan......

Yes, I will nedd 5/8" Type X drywall on the ceiling, and in fact, I just called my Inspector to get a feel for what he might want to see as far as the dust collection ductwork goes...

Basically, he said don't do it......This is the same township not letting me use OSB for the walls of the workshop. He basically said if i do something not on the prints I used to get the permit, it can't be there. I guess Technically he is right, but still, it's just some PVC for dust collection....

Due to the 14" engineerd floor truss, my height is only 7'6" in the garage below, had to get a low head room 7' garage door....By the way, the workshop itself on the second floor has cathedrial ceilings up to 10'

All ducting must be on the plans and requires a mechanical inspection. I believe code requires only tape and one coat of mud on the garage ceiling drywall joints, so depending on how much of a scofflaw you want to be, you can work around that. Attach the drywall with screws, so once you have the CO, you can peel off the tape, remove the screws, and pull down the sheets of drywall you need to. Run your ducting then put the drywall back up. The ceiling of my shop follows the roofline from the knee walls up to the ridge, where the height is 10' then it slopes gently to an 8' back wall. I just didn't want to run ducting or anything up there other than lights and hose reel.