Sharpening - Preferred Method To Re-establish Primary Bevel?

[Matt Martyn]

What is your preferred way to cut in a new primary bevel? I have 2 Veritas A2 plane blades that need a bit of work. The first one was originaly ground at 25* and I put a 30* secondary bevel (micro bevel) on it, and after a few sharpenings at that angle its progressing up the blade. Now I want to put it back to 25* again., so I'm gonna need to remove a bit of material to get it there. The second plane blade is also 25* but from the factory it was ground a degree or two out of square so the primary bevel goes almost half way up the face on one side and just a mm or so up the other. I'm using the Veritas MK2 jig, and when I put the blade in, it's always nice and square. For convenience sake, I want to square up the primary bevel for repeatable ease of sharpening with the jig.

So, here is the question. I have 220, 1000, 4000, 8000 water stones and a granite plate for flattening the stones, and lapping. I picked up the 220 grit water stone for this purpose, but the A2 steel just seems to hard for it. I have spent well over an hour on the first blade, and it really didn't do anything but wear the stone. I also tried some 180 and 220 grit wet/dry sandpaper on the granite and wasn't too successfull either. It cuts very slowly and the paper wears out quickly.

I don't want to use a grinder (gotta stay neander, eh haha), so the only other option I can think of is a diamond stone, or maybe oil stone? What does everybody else use when they need to hog off a bunch of metal from their plane blades accurately?

Thanks for reading my story and any help you can provide.
~Matt

[Mark Drayton]

Tormek wet grinder. Life is too short using waterstones alone with wider (plane) blades and the newer harder steels. I think they are best for honing rather than grinding back. After the Tormek, it's quick work honing using the Veritas Mk II and waterstones. Even quicker with the Worksharp 3000 although I think the waterstones leave a better edge.

Mark

[Mark Stutz]

This task is, IMO, a job for a grinder. Take your pick...Tormek,Jet, or other wet grinder, benck grinder, either 1750 (preferable) or 3000 (easiertoblue the edge), or ahand crank grinder (Neander!) If you have to do A2 by hand you'll probably have to go to 100 or even 60 grit paper, and even then it's going to take some time.

Mark

[Mike Henderson]

I use a DMT extra coarse stone and the LV MKII jig. Goes pretty fast.

Mike

[Eddie Darby]

I use a DMT extra coarse stone and the LV MKII jig. Goes pretty fast.Mike

Same here, except I use the MKI jig.

[Justin Grow]

I use a DMT extra coarse stone and the LV MKII jig. Goes pretty fast.

Mike

same here.

[Roger Bell]

If you want to use sandpaper, start with 80 grit silicon carbide.....180/220 is way too fine for rapid steel removal. I like norzon belts affixed to glass. Then you can use your waterstones.

[Steve Thomas]

What paper are you using? If it wears too quick, pick up a length of the good stuff, It'll cut quicker and wont clog and won't fall apart.

I re-establish angles all the time in the store for customers, I use a piece of 240, cloth back, Klingspour brand paper and it'll only take about a minute or so.

Papers are papers...

[Ron Brese]

This is the reason I have a Tormek and it is the purpose for which I purchased the Tormek. However the other thing you are dealing with in this instance is the down side to A-2 tool steel. Yes it has edge retention properties, however when faced with this task I think all that is gained with greater edge life is given back in grinding chores. With 0-1 you would be back to working in a fraction of the time it is going to take to get the A-2 back to primary bevel.

For plane irons the Tormek does not produce the level of edge I would want to work with, however for setting things back to standard bevel angles and giving you a nice hollow grind I think the wet grinding type machines are invaluable.

The other factor in this instance is the micro bevel. Micro bevels can reduce sharpening chores in the short term only to increase them in the long term when one, like yourself, decides to put things back to primary bevel. On a bevel down plane you could just carry on with the 30 degree as a primary bevel angle, however on bevel up planes the bevel angle has more of an effect on the actual cutting angle and is more critical to the performance of the plane.

Don't misunderstand my statements. I am not advocating one type of plane or tool steel is the more correct one to use, I am just pointing out the pros and cons of living with certain tool steels used in different configurations of planes. I believe this dilemma is why you are seeing more of a choice in tool steels these days. The guy that only gets some time in his shop on weekends probably doesn't want to spend most of the weekend sharpening and regrinding bevel angles and ultimately may be happier with irons made from 0-1 tool steel. Where as someone that works in their shop everyday and has a good regimen of sharpening standards worked out might gain some advantage from the A-2 plane irons.

One way to avoid this dilemma is to depend on the hollow grind to lessen the amount of metal removed to re-gain a sharp edge. In this way you would actually be maintaining the primary bevel angle and would only have to re-establish the hollow grind periodically.


Ron

[Eddie Darby]

The nice thing about diamond stones is that it does not matter whether it is O-1 or A-2 or HSS, the stones seem to handle them all.

[John Dykes]

I use the wide Duosharp coarse \ xtra-coarse stone. I also use this to help keep my Shaptons flat.

It works well. It works pretty fast too... But I'd like to try a grinder for a while and see how I like it, but not willing to invest $200 (grinder, good stones, tool rest, dressing method) in a trial period!

- jbd in a snowy Denver
(70 and sunny yesterday, 4 inches of snow this morning!)

[Quesne Ouaques]

I have three Veritas planes with the A2 blades. I use diamond stones followed by a very thick piece of plate of plate glass with carbide sandpaper and a honing guide. It's very easy and I literally get a mirror finish.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Matt

How you grind is dependent on how you plan to hone.

You don't say whether the blades are for a BU or BD plane. This may not be relevant for you, but it makes a difference for me.

On BD planes I prefer a hollow grind so that I can freehand the bevels on waterstones. On BU planes, where bevel angles are more critical, I prefer a flat bevel and then a honing guide to form a microbevel on waterstones.

For the hollow I have either a high speed grinder or a Tormek. For flat bevels I use a belt sander.

At the end of the day, what appears to begin with an elaborate plan, ends with as efficient and simple a sharpening strategy as possible.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Wilbur Pan]

One thing I've found using a Tormek to put a hollow grind on a bevel: because the radius of the Tormek wheel is about 9.5-10", the hollow is more shallow than if you use a 6-8" wheel on a grinder, so if you want a flat bevel surface, it doesn't take long to grind it out.

[Matt Martyn]

Thanks everybody for the info! Looks like the best way is with either a grinder or diamond stone. I think I will try some high quality 80 grit paper on my granite plate and see how that works, but I think I will probably invest in a course diamond stone for this purpose. That Tormek grinder looks pretty neat, that would be great for the primary bevel, and then finish up on the waterstones. Although, I dont think I have quite enough tools to justify it, just yet.

Thanks Ron for the info on the tool steels. Most of my planes right now are bevel up with the A2 steel blades. Next time I get another blade for a different cutting angle, maybe I'll look into one of the O2 blades.

Matt