Member
To me, the cost seems absurd. But it's not just Festool's pricing. Has anybody priced a vacation to Canada recently? We're all feeling the effects of a very, very weak American dollar. Yesterday the dollar hit yet another low against the Euro, and because Festool is a "Euro" company I'm sure that has a lot to do with it.
Member
Gary, Gary, GARY!!!! We can't run a vibrant economy with that kind of thinking!!!!Originally Posted by Gary Keedwell
I bought my Makita circular saw over 18 years ago for under $100 and it still runs great.
Gary
Sheesh!
"I love the smell of sawdust in the morning".
Robert Duval in "Apileachips Now". - almost.
Laserpro Spirit 60W laser, Corel X3
Missionfurnishings, Mitchell Andrus Studios, NC
Member
The economy has gotten too bad for me to buy one (especially at that price) and I think Festool will be disappointed with the lack of sales. Unfortunately, by July, I don't think even a price reduction will help them.
Member
While Kapex will be here July 1st, DW708 is here today (and has been for several years). I read that as a cost savings of around $1300.
Member
I like that idea Noah, a complete 10' panel saw that fits into systainers! Wondering how many systainers it would take....and what would the price point be?
I'd like to see the psycological profile of a person buying a $1300 SCMS....I get the value of all their previous tools but this round alludes me. Still have grampa's hand operated miter box...with a sharp well set blade it still cuts well, its very portable and doesn't create a dust cloud in use. Same quality made today would probably cost more than a power version!
Guest
But, But, But, But, it's a FESTOOL~!!A SCMS for the price of a cabinet saw....
What's wrong with this picture.
Member
I think the price issue is entirely dependent on whether your work requires precision and speed. If you are a hobbyist like I am, the Kapex seems like a super nice to have tool, but a luxury nonetheless.
However, if you are in the trades -- I am especially thinking trim carpenter or floorng installer -- this would be a investment that paid off in months if not weeks with the added precision and productivity in executing tricky miter and compound miter cuts.
The other advantage might be the famed Festool dust collection. SCMS's seem to be the most problematic dust-spewing tools out there. In my workshop I have my saw's dust port rigged up to a collection system, and I crafted a big collection hood underneath and behind the saw, and it is still not perfect -- but hey it is the workshop, right? But if you are a carpenter working in a finished space where you have to minimize the mess, you don't have a whole lot of options. Again, it seems that the Kapex would give you a solid competitive advantage in this situation.
Member
Time will tell. For $1300, some of those features look a bit gimmicky--lots of little plastic buttons and levers to break on the jobsite or in the work truck. The on-board miter gauge looks pretty nice. I can tell already though that I would never buy one for the handle alone. I can't stand vertical handles, they don't feel right to me (I don't think they're ergonomically correct, to tell the truth). My DW708 has a horizontal handle, and I use it left-handed just fine from time to time.
BTW--I don't think the DW708 is available anymore, the DW718 has taken its place, but is still about half the price if you shop around.
Also, a SCMS does NOT replace a radial arm saw, as you can't maneuver the blade parallel to the fence or table on a SCMS like you can with an RAS.
Moderator
It's so nice to have choices! There will be some for whom the Kapex will be very beneficial to satisfying their needs. For others, there is a very large range of choices at lower cost with varying features. I think, however, we can and should admire a company like Festool that strives to maintain the highest quality even at the risk of a higher cost. They know their market and accept that it's not inclusive of everyone. Better than than so many firms today that try (and, IMHO, fail) to accommodate everyone through compromise.
I don't know at this point if the Kapex is for me. At present, I only use my CMS for rough cutting of longer stock...mostly because it's been impossible to keep accurate. But I suppose that if I decided to replace the 12" Delta CMS I own with something new someday, I'd at minimum evaluate the Kapex because of the outstanding results I've had with the many other Festool products I already own and use. But that's not going to be for some time as I have a lot of other more Neander-oriented tool desires going forward.
--
The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
Member
Jason,
I won't argue for or against the Kapex. It's got some very nice features and looks high quality, but I don't like a vertical handle either. One of the reasons I bought a Bosch SCMS was the handle.
Regarding the Dewalt... The DW708 was a nice saw. It was replaced by the DW718, which I was going to buy. That is, until I reread the reviews and noticed that almost all of the good Dewalt 12" SCMS reviews were for the DW708 and almost all of the bad reviews were for the DW718!
It seems that the overall quality of the DW718 went down - castings are fairly poor and worst of all the head is floppy. I finally found a place (Western Tool Supply in Woodinville, WA) where I could compare the DW718 with the Bosch 4410L and Makita LS1013 side by side. I confirmed the reviews findings. The DW718 head was easily deflected side to side, while the Bosch and Makita heads were very solid.
My Bosch isn't perfect and I'd like to get a more accurate saw. I'm not sure if I can justify $1300 for a Kapex to replace my Bosch.
Dan.
It's amazing what you can accomplish in the 11th hour, 59 minute of any project. Ya just have to keep your eye on the goal.
Member
You may be interested in this angle finder, I'm guessing but it will most likley less than Fesstool.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...16&cat=1,43513
gREG
Member
You are assuming the Kapex is acruate though. For 1300 though I would like to see less plastic and more machined parts. That is just outragious for a miter saw, but I have not used one and I understand the dollar is killing us. I will probably wind up with one but I don't do this for a living I have to wonder how your typical contractor can aford one and how long festool will be around with all these price increases. A $800 router! I could buy 3 normal routers. ALso DeWalt now has a rail system so the things that made festool special are soon going away.
-=Jason=-
Member
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...37&cat=1,43513
For non lasered miter saws.
It doesn't look very durable with all the plastic, however, they haven't shown if it has its own systainer that keeps it in place.
Even with that rubber dust boot, it was shooting past a fair bit of dust (which is the reason I heard everyone talking about it). Can't one just play with making their own rubber boot for their own saw, to see if that improves it?
I figured it would be different, in that, the guard, would come ALL the way down, then the blade would plunge, for better dust collection (make blade changes more of a problem though).
Member
Does the Kapex play the music I hear in the video on the festool junkie site? I would diffently get one if it did! You would not have to get a shop radio
Seriously, $1300 for a saw? Not for me. I wont knock Festool as I had a chance to run a circular saw and Rotex and a demo and was completely impressed. But $1300 for a chopsaw? wowsa.
Scott
Moderator
Capitalism and competition...they play themselves out in the market constantly. We shall see. Festool is all about quality for sure and you definately pay for it but to me it is like builidng a house green (using solar, geothermal, fancy processes, etc.) that always cost a lot up front but "pays you back" over time. How that payback works is highly subjective.
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