The best way to MEASURE

[Craig Mitchell]

This is probably a silly question but...... what are some good techniques as far as measuring before cutting?


I've done simple wood projects for a long time now with basic tools but have recently upgraded to a rail system (EZ smart) which has made my cutting abilities about 100 times more accurate than they were.


Which in turn has made me realize that although I can cut extremely accurately now , I now need to make sure my measurements (and markings on the wood) are perfect too.


Having been essentially self taught, I've always used basic things like tape measures, rulers, and simple squares..... but if anyone has any special tips or measuring techniques they can share, I would be grateful..... and perhaps something that is obvious to you might be new to me.


My next big project is kitchen cabinets and I've realized I need to be in the sub 1/16ths of accuracy which is maybe the width of a pencil line or blade width.


And while I can now cut that with the rail system no problem, I'm still not 100% confident I getting that kind of accuracy in my initial measurements of markings. Thanks!

[Randal Stevenson]

Several basic things.........

1. Mechanical pencils. They have a much finer lead.
2 Marking knives (I don't like these as well, but some do)
3. There are rules like Incra, which have the slots for the mechanical pencils but
4. Make a template, and use that for all your pieces. Once you have got it measured for, you use it between the blade and the stop/fence, for your good pieces that aren't under the rail.

[Peter Quadarella]

The thing I am learning about measuring is to do it as little as possible. I will go out of my way to mark something based on the size of something else. For example, use a marking gage or combination square or something similar set to the size that you need, and mark your wood based on that.

I've heard people call this relative dimensioning. Also, when you are making marks, stay away from wide lead.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

Ditto on the mechanical pencils.

Also, when scribing a line, be sure to get the lead right up against the ruler.

Another suggestion - once you get a machine set up to make a cut, make ALL the cuts that need to be the same length. If I'm making a chest that's 44" long, and ALL the pieces end up 44 1/32" long, then it might be OK. Along the same line.....using a stop block to make repeatable cuts is very helpful.

[Greg Cole]

Story sticks & marking knives will go a long way towards accuracy. Also a good brand of square for layouts.... or the plastic drafting squares
I tend to not fussy over measurements as long as things are indentical when need be. What it the width of that tenon I cut, I dunno exactly but it fits the mortise just fine... etc.
A pencil is good for roughing things to length, width etc, but the tip of a well sharpened marking knife is much more accurate when you are looking to split hairs. In all honesty, my fingers do alot of "measuring" when I am making multiples of something, stack em up and your fingers will feel the slightest difference. "The fingers can feel what the eyes can't see" (Nikki I believe coined that one?).
The one other thing that will help out your accuracy is to make sure the machinery you are using is tuned to the best of your ability. For example, I spent a few hours on a 2 year old jointer this winter and it's oh so much more of a treat to use now as the results are impeccable.
If you are one who likes to measure, make sure to use the same measuring device from start to finish. I work with another hobbyist WW'er who does our CAD stuff etc on the day job... and he'd drive me bonkers with dimensions & tolerances in my shop. Then again if I handed him my "prints" of nothing more than basic dimensions and no drawings etc, I'm sure he'd go nuts.

Greg

[Ben Rafael]

Depends.
If you are going to chisel something then a marking knife is ideal since a creates a place for the chisel edge.
I avoid rulers and other such measure tools except for rough measuring. Story sticks are ideal for me. In general consistency is important.
If I need, lets say, 10 pieces that are 12 1/8" long I will cut them so that they are all the same length although they may be off by a 1/16" from true 12 1/8".

[David DeCristoforo]

Sticks. Two of em' each a bit shorter than your "net" measurement. For example, say you need to cut a rail between two stiles. So you butt one stick against each stile and mark across the sticks. Then place the sticks together with the lines matched up and you have a "gauge" for setting whatever saw you are using. A small spring clamp will hold them together if you need. No numbers required. Just look down there on the floor next to your table saw to find the sticks. Many shops (mine included) lay out entire projects on sticks and then cut and fit without ever touching any other measuring device. This eliminates any variation that might exist between your tape, your ruler, your saw fence scale or whatever.

Disclaimer: This is not something I thought of myself!

DD

[jason lambert]

My bigest error I found out was the tools, no two tape measures where the same and my squairs where not squair. No I buy all good stuff and the same brand tape measures. Helped 1000%.

[Todd Miranda]

Depends.
In general consistency is important.
If I need, lets say, 10 pieces that are 12 1/8" long I will cut them so that they are all the same length although they may be off by a 1/16" from true 12 1/8".

I'm pretty new at this woodworking and have gathered quite abit of equipment in last 6 months, but this is the area I struggle in like no other. I have been working in the metal working industry for 20 years now and have become a extreme perfectionist when it comes to measuring. When making rip cuts and length cuts what is considered a good +/- range? 1/8, 1/16, 1/64. Seems everytime I rip several pieces I gravitate to using my calipers and getting frustrated when I vary 0.010" between 5 or 6 pieces of stock.

Todd

[Shawn Honeychurch]

My bigest error I found out was the tools, no two tape measures where the same and my squairs where not squair. No I buy all good stuff and the same brand tape measures. Helped 1000%.

I never thought of the issue of tape measures and such not being the same. I have at least 3 tape measures in my shop and have just grabbed which ever is the closest.

For awhile I have been noticing that even when I am sure I measured and cut correctly, some pieces do not match dimensionally, maybe this is why. I have a couple of cabinet doors to make, I will make one using the same tape measure, and one using all 3 and see what the results are but I think I already know.

Thanks for the insight.

Shawn

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Craig, all good advice so far.

One item I'll comment is that since you are making kitchen cabinets, you may wind up using the metric system.

Modern cabinet design is often based upon the 32mm system for design, and fabrication.

I can tell you from experience, that's it's far easier, and more accurate to stay metric during the meausurment, design and fabrication stages than trying to covert particular measurements. (Plus there aren't any pesky fractions to deal with).

Regards, Rod.

[Craig Mitchell]

Thank you very much for all the replies! Lot of good info, please keep it coming!

[Mikail Khan]

When installing mouldings on cabinets I no longer use a measuring instrument. I cut the 45 deg on one side, fit the moulding on the cabinet and mark the cut position with a sharp pencil. This has given me very good results.

MK

[Craig Mitchell]

Does anyone have a source for what would be considered "very accurate" measuring sticks and large squares.

I have several Johnson metal measuring sticks in 3, 4, 5ft length and some smaller Empire Squares.... what would be the next step up?

Good suggestion about going metric as well for cabinets. Thanks!

[Bryan Parlor]

[QUOTE=Craig Mitchell;825505]This is probably a silly question but...... what are some good techniques as far as measuring before cutting?

Craig
The tape measure has been my biggest source of error (apart from occasional bouts of brain fog). I avoid using a tape a much as possible and instead use a steel ruler, a Lee Valley tools ruler stop and a 7mm mechanical pencil.

I use the ruler to make the first part and then set up a stop on the bench for all subsequent parts. That way all parts are identical (provided you don't get sawdust between the stop and workpiece).

The ruler and stop also allows multiple marks to be made using the same setting (sometimes useful).

I also use the ruler and stop as a guage to set the Ez rail parallel to a workpiece or fence (see picture).

Bryan