Please help me to not make THIS mistake anymore

[Stefan Antwarg]

Here is a picture of the latest bowl I tried to turn. It was very green - water flying off just while spinning (is that normal?). As you can see, it broke. That piece went flying off the latheright as I started to do my next pass. I could see that there was a crack in the bowl and that there was a knot in the rim. But I figured I was just practicing so that stuff wouldn't matter. My guess is that the gouge hit a weak spot in the crack causing it to break off. Plus, I was pretty close to the hole in the rim. Do you think it was the crack or the knot? I just want to make sure I don't do the same thing again. If I were standing a little more to the left, it could have really hurt me.

Thanks,
Stefan

[Richard Gillespie]

I know I'm speaking heresy here but if you don't get an answer here, you might consider going to the Wood Central forum. There is a forum dedicated to turning. They should have the knowledge to help you. I havn't turned a bowl yet so I know I can't.

[Richard Allen]

The crack.

Yes, fresh cut wood, usualy ejects water just by spinning.

[Kieran Kammerer]

Just a suggestion. A friend of mine who is a production turner and turns 8+ hours a day, got hit in the face when a bowl cracked and flew off his lathe. Required numerous facial stitches and visits back to the MD. After trying out many options, he now turns wearing a hockey helmet with wire face shield. Has luckily had no recurrence of any facial/bodily injuries. If I could only convince him to wear a helmet on his Harley.

[Jack Diemer]

Ken would get out some superglue, and finish turning the bowl.

[Jim Becker]

Don't worry about it, Stefan...while pictures aren't always reliable, I think that blank was bound to crack right there anyway. Look at the darker color...that's generally an indication that there has been water and air going through that crack for a long time. Once you cut away the "good material" and fully exposed the crack...it became a much bigger crack.

Just put another blank on the lathe and continue turning from there!

[jack jarvis]

Just put another blank on the lathe and continue turning from there![/

Regarding turning wet wood. Let me relay an experience of mine. I was turning a piece of maple cut from a old tree. I turned about 1/4 of the bowl, left it in the lathe for a few days, got back to it. I saw a small crack on the outside and figured id cut it down past the crack. Well i started cutting from the inside and my intuition said "put on your face shield" but i continued. In a bit my intuition screamed "PUT ON YOUR ******* FACESHIELD". I did. In about 2 minutes I hit that crack from the inside and a piece of the bowl went flying and hit me in the faceshield right between my eyes. If i didn't have that on i'm sure id have, at minimum, several stitches, or would have been on the floor knocked out.
The moral of the story..."WEAR YOUR ******* FACESHIELD"!
It took me a few days to go back and jump in but i did. Where you will find cracking and moisture evacuation is usually at the "pith" (center) of the tree. It is there where you will find most cracking. To mimimize this what I have been taught when turning wet wood is this.
turn your bowl down to a rough turing making it about 1" thick. Then get yourself some "Anchorseal". A type of wax coating. Take your rough bowl and coat it with the anchorseal and put it on the shelf for about a month or so. This will allow the bowl to dry out slowly thus making cracking not happen. There are many other ways to dry wood, thats another subject. Hope that helps!

[Bill Grumbine]

Just a suggestion. A friend of mine who is a production turner and turns 8+ hours a day, got hit in the face when a bowl cracked and flew off his lathe. Required numerous facial stitches and visits back to the MD. After trying out many options, he now turns wearing a hockey helmet with wire face shield. Has luckily had no recurrence of any facial/bodily injuries. If I could only convince him to wear a helmet on his Harley.

I would like to address a couple of things here. In the first place, wood is going to break from time to time whether we see it coming or not. The ONLY thing we can do is be prepared for it. In some cases we can prevent it by learning the sounds wood makes, by gaining experience in what to look for visually, by learning how the gouge feels as it encounters a piece that is about to let go. Even so, there are going to be times when we are caught by surprise either because we are not paying attention or because there are just things which we cannot predict.

Nothing works as well as a full lexan face shield. Keiran, I know who your friend is, and I know he is very famous and well respected in turning circles nationally, but a hockey mask and wire mesh will not protect his lungs from dust or his face and eyes from splinters. The best possible protection is a full face shield coupled with a respirator of some sort. We spend thousands on lathes, chucks, turning tools, vacuum chucks, etc, but people seem to balk at buying and wearing even a $15.00 face shield.

I have been smacked in the face more times than I can remember by pieces coming off the lathe. Several of them would have injured me seriously, and one or two had the potential to be fatal. None of them did anything except startle me except for the very first. That one gave me a cut and a scar right between the eyes, and that was all it took for me to start wearing the proper safety gear. My various face masks have prevented large splinters from entering my eyes, prevented my nose from being pushed back into my brain (both of these were very scary!) and numerous smacks that at the least would have been embarrassing to explain, not to mention the pain and potential disfigurement involved.

BUY A FACE SHIELD AND WEAR IT ALL THE TIME - NOT PART OF THE TIME, NOT SOME OF THE TIME, NOT MOST OF THE TIME, ALL OF THE TIME.

IF YOU ARE WORKING WITH SPALTED WOOD, EXOTICS, OR ARE SANDING, WEAR BREATHING PROTECTION. THE MOST EXPENSIVE ONE YOU CAN BUY IS STILL CHEAPER THAN A NEW SET OF LUNGS.

IF YOU ARE UNWILLING TO TAKE THE PROPER SAFETY PRECAUTIONS, YOUR FIRST PROJECT SHOULD EITHER BE A WHITE CANE OR A COFFIN BECAUSE YOU ARE GOING TO BE NEEDING AT LEAST ONE OF THEM BEFORE LONG.

Anyone who knows me knows that I am not an alarmist or a sissy pants, but these are the realities of woodturning. Failure to recognize them can be serious, and in fact will be serious eventually.

Bill

[Stefan Antwarg]

Thanks for the info everyone. Since this turned into a safety thread, I will proudly point out that I WAS wearing my face shield. I always do as a matter of fact.

Stefan

[Mark Stutz]

Bill.
Ilike the idea of a combination shield and respirator as opposed to a half mask type like I have, with a simple faceshield. I searching, I've only found a couple...the Triton and Airshield. What type do you or anyone else use. I know that they may fit differently,etc, but just want to have as many options as possible. Thanks.

Mark

[Dale Thompson]

Stefan,
Turning wet wood is not going to cause the kind of failure which you experienced. I LOVE those LONG shavings which come off the lathe and coat your shield and floor. Those "wet" shavings will stick to your shoes and you will never have to buy a new pair. However, when you walk into your living room with that stuff on your shoes, the LOYL will KILL you IMMEDIATELY. No new shoes, though.

The "crack" was probably not your problem either. That is unless you were putting WAY too much pressure on the tool.

Knots, however, are another problem. "Tight" knots CAN be turned with few problems (give or take a bit of "chatter"). From your picture, I would guess that you had a "loose" knot in your blank.

C'mon experts. Correct me if I am wrong - as usual. "Loose" knots can't be turned reliably - if at all. "Tight " knots are a minor "catch" which sort of go away. "Loose" knots are a MAJOR catch which will put the bowl, or its remains, into your facemask. If the knots on your turning stock don't blend with the solid portion, get another blank.

Dale T.

[Bill Grumbine]

Hi Mark

I have what used to be called the Racal AH-5. I do not know what the current 3M designation is, although the model I own is still being made. It is a white hardhat with the fan and filters located in the helmet and the battery alone on a cord. I have had it for seven years now, and I still really like it. It has gone through a couple of batteries, filters, and just this week I replaced the face shield for the first time, but everything else on it has been very reliable.

Bill

[Bill Grumbine]

Stefan,
Turning wet wood is not going to cause the kind of failure which you experienced. Dale T.

Hi Dale

I must respectfully disagree here. Wet wood can very easily fail like this under the proper circumstances. Bark inclusions, ring shake, wind shake, voids in the wood, and damage from felling are just some of the things that can cause a piece of wood to fail catastrophically. There are more. In fact, it is often harder to discern some of these defects in wet wood, especially shake problems, because the wood has not dried out enough for it to visibly separate yet.

As far as knots go, you are right about those. Tight knots are easily turned and retianed within the piece, while loose knots are not.

Bill

[Jim Becker]

Bill, I think that what Dale meant was that the simple fact that the wood was "wet" was not the cause of the failure...folks shouldn't avoid turing wet wood--it's a glorious experience! However, you hit the nail in that most failure is caused by defects...and they can exist in both wet and dry wood. For this reason, I heartily agree that personal protection needs to become a habit from the start. One never knows when something will let go.

[jack jarvis]

[QUOTE=Jim Becker]Bill, I think that what Dale meant was that the simple fact that the wood was "wet" was not the cause of the failure...folks shouldn't avoid turing wet wood.....

I agree with you, i'd rather turn wet wood myself, I love to see those long curls come flying off as you cut. The only drawback to turning wet wood is the shrinkage and distortion that your bowl goes thru while in the drying process. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to cut something down, then a few days later put it back in the lathe and it almost shakes off the lathe because it has warped from uneven drying. What I have seen is while wet wood spinning in lathe the water migrates to a certain part of the wood fibers where it is expelled and you can be sure that right there is where the crack is going to form. If anyone has any other drying techniques to avoid cracking please post them.