Safety question: Which tools are most likely to cause injury?

[David Peters]

This is an unpleasant topic, to be sure, however it's a question that has been nagging me ever since my safety-minded brother-in-law, upon hearing that I was going to purchase a PM2000, asked "why not the SawStop?"

My primary reasoning, as silly as it seems in hindsight, was that all of the other stationary tools in my shop are Powermatic.

Now, having the benefit of learning from many of you (long-time anonymous lurker, first-time poster), the recent thread http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=81807 has put me close to the tipping point where I'd like to sell my PM2000 and replace it with a SawStop.

Before I do, however, I'd like to ask one last question, which is the point of this thread (whew, this is a long intro!).

One tiny seed of doubt that was put in my head from a local Woodcraft owner was that the majority of TS accidents were from kickback, not skin-blade contact. That got me thinking....

Is there any information, either quantitative or qualitative, about the relative injury rates of major woodworking accidents? I've heard that certain tools are more dangerous than others -- the jointer, for example, is frequently mentioned, and there's no SawStop for that (yet?) -- however I use my TS much more frequently than my jointer.

So if you had to guess, for any potential major accident in the shop, which are the most frequently occurring?

[For the curious, if the consensus is that TS skin-blade contact is high up or at the top of the list, that will be the tipping point for me.]

[Terry Teadtke]

The table saw is the most dangerous tool on the shop in my opinion followed by the shaper. According to the Saw Stop DVD, 90,000+ table saw accidents serious enough to require medical attention happen a year or about one every six minutes. If one can afford it, it's almost a crime not to seriously consider a Saw Stop if you're looking for a new saw. I would hope down the road Saw Stop will build other equipment like planers, jointers, shapers, and so on with their quick stop technology. Originally the Saw Stop people had no intention of building their own saws because they thought other manufactures would be interested in purchasing their stop brake. I don’t know the particulars (probably price) but none of the other saw manufactures were interested. I’m wondering what the other saw manufactures are thinking now seeing how well the Saw Stops are selling. And to think that the Saw Stop technology was developed just a few miles south of me in Wilsonville, Or.

Terry

[Ken Fitzgerald]

David....there are a lot of statistics out there concerning woodworking tool accidents. As a I get older I get more skeptical about the reliability of the same statistics. Statistics, like "polls" can be juggled to verify anything you want.

That being said:
'
Kickback and flesh/blade contact are both major problems when dealing with table saws. Sawstop has their way of combating it. European type slider saws have a different way of combating it.

But....the most dangerous tool in the shop is the one you are operating either under the influence of some drug...alcohol is a drug....operating while being overly tired.....operating while being distracted........whether it's a jig saw, circular saw, router, shaper, tablesaw, bandsaw......they are all dangerous if the person operating it isn't properly knowledgeable about safe operation or 100% paying attention to what they are doing and doesn't have it completely thought out before starting. Even hand tools can be extremely dangerous.

I personally know a lady who was doing some remodeling....her being a woman has nothing to do with her skills by the way it could have just as easily been a man......she had an accident with a circular saw that resulted in her femoral artery being cut by the CS blade and she nearly bled to death before they got her to the hospital.

I've seen some stats posted around here that were supposedly taken from ER reports and the number is quite high...higher than I had expected. Is a Sawstop worth it. In my opinion yes. And that's from a guy who said he'd never buy one after they petitioned the CPSC to enforce a similar style device on all consumer table saws. Someday, when I have an extra 5 grand, I might buy one. In the mean time, I'll be extremely careful with my T/S.

[Carl Fox]

ANY tool can be dangerous. They are like motorcycles. In the right hands a bike is pretty safe, with the right training and equipment, but a moments inattention can be a life-changing experience.

You determine how 'safe' a tool is. Whenever I approach a tool I take a good look at my hands. I marvel on how God designed them with all the tenons, nerves, bones, vessels, etc. I strive to make sure my hands look exactly the same after I use a tool as before.

Heck, today I was trying to teach my bride to use a screwdriver and suggested she wear my mechanic's armored gloves.

A healthy fear of injury is the beginning of wisdom. IMHO, sawstop is a double-edged sword. Sure, they prevent injury. However, they also give a feeling of confidence so it becomes tempting to be sloppy.

I like being afraid of that spinning blade, it builds respect for the equipment.

That being said, if I had tons of money and was in the market for a new TS, Sawstop would be on my short list. I understand on top of the safety features it is a top-notch machine.

[David Peters]

Kickback and flesh/blade contact are both major problems when dealing with table saws. Sawstop has their way of combating it. European type slider saws have a different way of combating it.

Agreed... one of my rationalizations was that if the Woodcraft owner was correct, and the majority of accidents were indeed from kickback, well the PM2000 has pretty good safety features in that regard -- although having said that, one of the things that impressed me with the SawStop video was the ease of changing the riving knife to full splitter and back; something that's more difficult on the PM2000 which means, of course, it doesn't happen as often as it probably should.

I also appreciate the comments about other safety considerations -- in my opinion those always apply, and are absolutely the most important factors in keeping people safe. What I have started to realize, however, is that given the number of hours one spends in front of a big power tool, even if you're exercising extreme caution 99.999% of the time, it's that 0.001% that having something like a SawStop might be a finger-saver. And with all possible respect and nearly infinite humility towards the fine craftsmen on SMC, it does seem that a fair number of the members here have had an unfortunate accident at one point in their lives.

I think I might be talking myself into it.... I just hope the height of the table is similar otherwise the guy who helped me build my massive outfeed table is going to be pissed 'cause we haven't even finished it yet!

[Mike Henderson]

To me, the difference between a kickback and touching the blade is that the kickback will most likely hurt you but you'll recover. Touching the blade often (usually?) leaves permanent injuries.

When I buy a new saw, I plan for it to be a SawStop.

Mike

[Tom Veatch]

Since I've never encountered operational blade/skin contact with my table saw and have encountered kickback, my first hand experience is that kickback is the more common. But, since no injuries more extensive than bruises have resulted, I don't know that they qualify as "major accidents".

I think you'd be better advised to consider the potential for serious/major injuries rather than just the frequency of occurrence. A kickback that doesn't induce a blade contact injury has a relatively low protential for serious injury. Whereas, blade contact has a relatively high potential for very serious injury.

Without having reliable statistical data, my WAG is that even if there are more kickback incidents during a given period of time, there would be more incidents of serious injury from blade contact than from kickback during that same period of time.

Even if the Saw Stop didn't do any more than any other saw to prevent kickback, it would be no worse in that respect than other saws. That makes the frequency of kickback is a non-issue in choosing between the Saw Stop and some other model. You'd face essentially the same probability of encountering kickback whichever saw you chose.

However, the Saw Stop does appear to take effective action to prevent blade contact injury. You're the only one who can weigh for yourself the cost effectiveness of that feature.

[josh bjork]

I was gonna answer chisels, but you have all taken a turn in another direction.

[Will Blick]

David, a very valid question. But like most well thought out questions, there is rarely solid data that will answer your question. I have wondered the same thing for a long time. There was a web site that was dedicated to ww power tool injuries, but I can't find the link. If anyone would know, you would think Saw Stop would, as the true uniqueness of their saw prevents blade contact.

Kieth raises an under-stated issue regarding TS injuries. Of course, I realize there will be NO stats to support this, but I wonder what % of the blade contact injuries were a result of being "under the influence", extreme fatigue, or just plain unsafe practices. Regardless, as mentioned, there is no disadvantages of owning a SawStop, other than your bank account. But even then, if you can afford it, seems like cheap insurance policy over a 10 year period....


What I does surprise me is... it seems we all know someone who has made TS blade contact. A friend of mine who is quite smart, last year, a friend of mine, almost lost a few fingers, luckily, they sewed them back on, and after a year of constant medical treatments, the fingers have maxed out at 40% usable...with no sensation of touch. Its very sad.


He is a regular beer drinker, drinks beer every day, never really drunk, but not quite 100% either. I did not have the nerve to ask him how many he had the day of the accident, but if I had to guess, the booze was a major contributor to the accident.


Its tough selling a used TS, my guess is, you take a big hit on it?

[Tom Veatch]

I was gonna answer chisels, but you have all taken a turn in another direction.

If you measure "serious injury/major accident" by the amount of blood spilled, then I'd have to agree that chisels are historically the most dangerous tool in my shop.

[Eric Sayre]

My father gave me a list of most dangerous: 1. chainsaw, 2. radial arm, 3. circular, 4. tablesaw, etc. He logged and was a carpenter.

My shop teacher gave me a list of most dangerous: 1. shaper, 2. router, 3. tablesaw, etc.

The advice I will give my children will be this: 1. any moving bit or blade that you will come in contact with if the workpiece slips, moves, or kicks back. 2. the "invisible" bit or blade....etc.

Since I put my hand into a moving tablesaw blade, tools don't scare me anymore. My alertness and attitude toward them does.

Some tools certainly do require more respect than others, though.

[Judy Kingery]

David, very valid question and great responses. One thing that wasn't mentioned was taught in a workshop I attended awhile back and I certainly didn't give it much thought prior to that - your grinder. Pay attention to the sound. Not to be alarmist, but part of a wheel that might come apart, I'd just thought the grinder rather innocuous. And no, never had a problem.

But now when I sharpen tools or a blade or something, I do pay attention to sound and I stand slightly aside. Where I can see, have on a pair of safety glasses or a shield, but if anything flies apart, nope, shouldn't hit me. So just a little foot note to the list of good things people have said. Take care,

Jude

[Per Swenson]

No, not a smart alec. All of them.

Per

[Peter Luch]

The absolutely most dangerous thing in any shop or in the field is.......
Distraction

Even one second of distraction will cause an accident.

The first thing I have taught every apprentice under me is that when a power tool is turned on it gets your 100% attention until turned off.

No matter what the stats are on each tool I would have to say that 90% or higher would be caused by a distraction of the operator.

Even when working in heavy construction everyone knew that when someone was using a power tool you did not disturb them until they were done.
There was only one word that would ever be yelled at someone using a power tool and that was "Headache!!" and that was only used if they were in imminent danger.
Everything else was ignored until the cut was finished.

Don't look up if a car pulls up or a door slams or if some knucklehead taps your shoulder, stay with the machine, mentally 100% till it is turned off.

Aloha, Pete

[Lance Norris]

When I was in high school 27 years ago, in the 4 years I was in woodshop, there were 2 serious accidents. One was on a drill press and the other, a lathe. While I know that the table saw is probably the most dangerous, I really dont fear my drill press very much. But all it takes is a short lapse of attention, and any tool can injure you. To the original question, I have seen, or been involved with people, who were hurt with the 2 tools mentioned and also a jointer and a router.