Saw Stop in the High Schools

[Thomas S Stockton]

In my HS shop class we could use all the tools but the planer and maybe the shaper, don't remember exactly. In the three years I was there the only person who got hurt bad enough to go to the doctor was the teacher himself.
Tom

[Ben Rafael]

The drill press in our shop ran at about 50 rpm, no kidding, no way anyone could get severely injured on it.
Metal shop was another story: We had lathes, blow torches, all kinds of welders, forges... A disaster waiting to happen, but nothing happened.

[Mike Cutler]

I hope they pull the SawStop label off of it, so the kids don't get into bad habits. If they don't, I hope they remind the kids that the danger of kickback is still there and very real.

Ya' know. of all the "lesson's driven home" this is the most memorable.

We were being "introduced" to the table saw in Jr. High and the shop teacher "demonstrated "a kickback for us. This was 1971-72.
We all stood behind the table saw and he started a piece of material through the saw and then switched to pulling it through the back. He intentionally pinched the piece of the material, and a 1" wide, 3' long piece of hardwood shot off the front of that saw and hit the blackboard, which was maybe 15' behind the saw.
It sounded like a shot and hit like a hammer and knocked a hole in that blackboard, with spiderweb shatter cracks that radiated out from the hole. Pretty cool for a bunch of 8th graders
I really don't think he ever meant to present that effective of a lesson, or damage the blackboard.
I still think it's one of the best lessons ever given at Lorbeer Jr. High School in Diamond Bar California.

[Ben Rafael]

Ya' know. of all the "lesson's driven home" this is the most memorable.

We were being "introduced" to the table saw in Jr. High and the shop teacher "demonstrated "a kickback for us. This was 1971-72.
We all stood behind the table saw and he started a piece of material through the saw and then switched to pulling it through the back. He intentionally pinched the piece of the material, and a 1" wide, 3' long piece of hardwood shot off the front of that saw and hit the blackboard, which was maybe 15' behind the saw.
It sounded like a shot and hit like a hammer and knocked a hole in that blackboard, with spiderweb shatter cracks that radiated out from the hole. Pretty cool for a bunch of 8th graders
I really don't think he ever meant to present that effective of a lesson, or damage the blackboard.
I still think it's one of the best lessons ever given at Lorbeer Jr. High School in Diamond Bar California.

It's much safer to demo kickback using a piece of styrofoam

[Richard M. Wolfe]

I can just see some kid walking up behind another one using the saw and tossing a wet paper towel into the blade. (Especially if he had an ax to grind.) "Wasn't me, uh-uh, nosir, wasn't close to it."

[Glen Blanchard]

It's much safer to demo kickback using a piece of styrofoam

Possibly, but Mike might not even remember such a demonstration years later as it would lack the "WOW" factor.

[Bruce Benjamin]

There's an interesting letter in the current issue of Woodshop News from a HS shop teacher regarding the SS. Basically he is saying that in his entire 28 year teaching career he only had one "incident". But since changing over to the SS he has had six "activations" leading him to believe that the SS "lulls" students into something of a "false sense of security".

This post quoted above should be read by every current or future SawStop owner. I know not all SS owners, (Or future owners) are of this mind but it seems that so many posts on this forum have the flavor of, "Now that I have my SawStop..." or, "I'm going to buy the SS so I can check the tablesaw off of my dangerous tools list". Injury from kickback is obviously still a possibility with the SS but I also don't believe that it's impossible to get more than just a scratch from a SS blade. I remember a quote from Mr. SawStop himself saying something to the effect that he believes that sooner or later someone will have a serious saw blade versus skin accident with the SS. Or maybe it was just a line on the SS website. Either way it was said by the SS powers-that-be.

I think that the SS is a big step towards tablesaw safety but I see them more like the way airbags and seat belts are a big step towards automotive safety. They're great safety devices but they won't prevent all injuries or even death.

Bruce

[Mike Cutler]

It's much safer to demo kickback using a piece of styrofoam

Yeah. I'm pretty sure he never repeated that demo'. All he had to do was point to the hole in the blackboard for the next few years.

Who knows, maybe the lessons learned from that demo' led to using styrofoam.

Now metal shop was a different story altogether...............

[Robert Conner]

If I were fortunate enough to have a Saw Stop in the School I taught in I would never tell the Students what it was. I would even go so far as cover any reference to it. Just tell them we got a New Saw. I would rather go on and Teach the normal safety procedures. If it were to trip I would just be happy for the lack of injury. It is very hard to convince many students that they are not invincible, that would just be another obstacle. Besides who does not like to see the Hot Dog thing?
I do think many of my students would assume he or she could not get hurt when using it, a very dangerous situation at best.
Maybe I'm just too cautious!
As for the Kickback I used to have a steel cabinet about 7 feet from the TS with a lot of dents in it I would explain how they got there. That was my indicator and that worked without the demonstration.
Robert

[sullivan mcgriff]

It should be noted that all my shop teachers were missing a finger or two, except the one who spent all his time drinking with the custodian and only came out when some disaster struck, genius trying to weld onto bottom of 45 gallon drum and the heat buildup caused it to fly in the air. It is good to see them using a good piece of technology to improve safety rather than something that doesn't work but is safe.

[Tomislav Biric]

I remember 8th grade shop class: tapping my bench-mate on the shoulder, saying "look, Mr. X* is going to cut off his thumb." Mr. X was an art teacher, and he was making 1/4" strips of pine out of a 1/2' thick 3' long plank. Old Rockwell, no guard. He had the fence set 1/4" from the blade, and was reaching over the blade with his left hand, thumb extended, bridging the plank and the off-cut.

He actually got a few strips completed before he put lateral pressure on the plank, causing it to kick-back, taking his thumb off in the process. We saw a red mist, and that was that.

That was the last time that year that ANYONE but the shop teachers got to use the table saw - or the planer, joiner, or shaper. I hope the SawStops remove one of the excuses schools use when they go after shop programs, and make it more likely that students will actually get a chance to use the tools. And, if they fire the brake - well, yes, it might be because they were less worried, but it might just be a less expensive way to learn a lesson.

~Tomislav

*Not his real name

[Ron Jones near Indy]

My main concern centers around those who are comfortable with the Saw Stop in a school program who do woodworking after high school with a non-Saw Stop machine. Will they think that the machine will "protect" then and be lulled into a false sense of security leading to an accident??? It could happen in Dad's shop at home. I can see it happening. The teacher will be negligent, in my opinion, not to emphasize this possibility!

[Peter Quinn]

My own introduction to kick back was on an old dewalt radial arm saw when I was about 9. My grandfather was ripping something in his shop when I walked down the basement stairs, the landing of which led you directly into the path of any kickback from the RAS. He had a TS, not sure why he ripped on the RAS, but as I hit the landing a sticker kicked back and stuck into the mortar in the rubble foundation, bits and pieces of it shattered against the granite boulders, all inches from my face.

There was a red X painted on the floor of the landing. Gruff man that he was, my grandfather shut off the saw and yelled 'Can you read?". On the floor next to the red X was painted "Don't stand here"! That sort of thing leaves an impression.

[Rick Gifford]

There may be a legitimate concern with new tablesaw users starting their career on the SawStop and having a false sense of security.

Myself on the other end just bought the thing, havent even set it up. However I have seen the damage these things can do and I have a built in respect/fear?/distrust or something like that, that all is well when using one. Not that it stops me from doing the work, no, but I am aware of that blade.

Actually I flinch a bit when I see folks push through using their hands so close to the blade. I know they are confident and are experienced, but don't matter.

I do not trust the brake. I assume it will not work. I prefer to keep that outlook so I dont get complacent.

It is why the riving knife was so high on my list of features. Anything to keep me from taking shortcuts (and yes I do, I remove the guards and dont put them back... maybe I wont have the excuse its such a pain now).

I am glad the schools have what is the safest tablesaw on the market available, short of the sliding tables.

For some reason I dont have the same reservation on the bandsaw. I have no reasoning for that either. It is probably why Ive been sliced pretty good on that tool, and never injured on the tablesaw.

Respect for the tools is priority.

Even if the SS brake works perfectly I'm still getting cut. Its says 1/4" deep isnt unreasonable depending on the situation. Man, thats deep enough to open a vein around the wrist. I'm keeping my pushsticks.

[Jim Andrew]

I was a shop teacher for only 2 years. Stress drove me nuts. The kids had a magnetism for reaching for the scraps on the table saw. One kid cut the end off his finger. Probably only 1/16th inch. But they absolutely drove me nuts. Sawstop would have been very welcome in my shop class. I was constantly on those kids about safety on the table saw. Safety on everything for that matter. We had safety tests, you had to pass the safety test on every machine before you could use any of those machines, and the kids just seemed to take safety as a joke. Jim