Guide Rails - Festool vs the EZ Smart Guide

[eric hann]

Jay,
1)I'm kinda confused on the rubber strips. Let's say I'm ripping 8 feet. My saw is chugging along an 8ft length. Are these strips gonna secure that run?
2) I saw the prices of those blades in the catalog. Sure hope there would be some competition on blade prices.
3) Not sure I'd be happy with that connector. I have a router table that gives me a "bump in the road" all the time too. One day I'm gonna find a router table that can do small pieces without dipping. As for the guide, no problems.
4) Still concerned about the chip on the right. Sometimes, take bookcase ends, you're just flying through the middle. The right wouldn't be waste.

Can't debate dust collection. Thought about a porter cable saw, which has dust collection. Just like that DeWalt yellow I guess :-)

Another thing that I noticed, guess I haven't done much real work today, is that the Festool is one sided. Working in a garage, I've got to had it to the EZ Guide. It's 2 sided so I don't have to turn it once it is laying around my wood.

There is no arguing that Festool is a nice system. If I wanted to compare complete systems, Festool is the only one. Haven't seen a mount for a jigsaw on EZGuide just yet. The router is there, the plunger is there (using my Dewalt), the zero clearance is there, custom fit to your saw.

If we're talking the most versatile guide, EZGuide looks better in my eyes. Besides, if I have a 2x4 that needs a quick cut, I can use the same saw. Again, I'm not sold on a rubber strip to keep my guide straight. I'd be using clamps even if the strips worked better than clamps. Call it the Fear Factor :-) I've made my share of bad cuts.

EZGuide is definitely the more portable of the 2. Grab a cordless saw and go wherever you want.

Again, we're talking guide vs guide, not dust collection, etc.

Gonna have to check deeper on that 150/5 sander. Maybe I can convince wife for father's day!!

Hey Jim, nice web site. I agree with you. If you are a professional that works in other people's homes, dust collection would be a very important thing to keep in mind during decision time. Lucky for me, I'm a garage craftsman :-)

[Bob Marino]

Jay,

The blades are metric and the only other company (to my knowledge) that has a blade designed to fit the ATF is Forrest.

Bob

[JayStPeter]

Eric,

1. Yeah, it sounds bad, but the rubber strips do hold the things in place. I may get some of the clamps for those cuts on $100 pieces of plywood. But, so far I've done about 30-40 cuts and it hasn't moved. I really didn't believe it either, but I was tapped out and figured I'd use some regular clamps to hold them in place. Unfortunately, the saw base doesn't leave any room for external clamps. The ones Festool sell go into a slot on the bottom of the rail.

2. Agreed, blades are pricey. But, I have a $100 blade on my $100 miter saw. Go figure. If you wanted, you could get a $100 Forrest blade for your saw . I guess the big difference is that I can't get a $10 blade for mine if I wanted to.

3. Yep. One of these days I'll probably buy one of the long rails. But that'll sure hurt. I'm getting better at getting rid of the bump in the road, so maybe technique will win out.

4. Right on. Yours seems to have an advantage here. So far, I've only used it on construction materials and Birch ply. There was no real chipping on any of my cuts yet, even on the right. Haven't done any melamine. I guess the expensive blade works.

I borrowed a PC saw and hooked my shop vac to it. It is much better than what you probably have, but still not up to the Festool. Like I said in my first post. That was my #1 reason for even considering the saw.

There are some definite nice things about your system. If there was a $100 saw with truly good dust collection, it would be a tough call.

You can use the Festool without the guides. I COULD use it to cut some 2x4s, but I wouldn't want to dull my spensive blade

I too am a garage craftsman (although I'm moving to the basement soon). It used to drive me crazy that my heater would finally get my garage warm enough to use, then I'd have to open the door and drag out some stuff to cut down a piece of ply so I didn't spit a ton of dust around. I was considering a panel saw until the Festool came along. So, I guess I saved money ... er... something.

What I really want now, is a router with good DC. The Festool might have it, but there are too many negatives for me to even think about it. Ironically, I'm thinking about a Dewalt to solve this problem

Jay

[Bob Marino]

Eric,

Yes, the rubber strips will hold the rail in place when using the saw on an 8 foot rip, but the clamps are nice insurance. When the router is attached to the rail (making dados, sliding dt's, etc.) I would suggest using the clamps.

As for the rail connector, the newer rails would use two connecting bars, locked in with set screws and have tight enough tolerances so you don't get a bump on the hump .

Festool does have six different blades (at different prices) for various applications, but the carbide Fine tooth saw blade that is supplied with the saw is $37.00 and can be resharpened, but admittedly I haven't priced other high quality circ saw blades, so I am not sure if this price is in the ballpark.

Bob

[JayStPeter]

Bob,

Thanks for the reply.

Doesn't really help the argument that blades for the Festool are too expensive though . I am a big fan of Forrest blades and would hate for Eric to know how much I've spent on them. But, I can't imagine they would give any better cut than the blade I've got.

It all made me go back and look. Actually, the Festool blades aren't THAT bad. They are about 20% more than the higher end Freud blades for 7.25" saws. I have a $30 7.25" Freud blade that don't give as good a cut. Well, at least not in my old Craftsman saw. May do better in a Dewalt.

Still true that I can't buy a $6-10 blade.

Jay

[JayStPeter]

Eric,


As for the rail connector, the newer rails would use two connecting bars, locked in with set screws and have tight enough tolerances so you don't get a bump on the hump .


Bob

Hmmmm, looks like I need a second connector.

[Frank Pellow]

This thread seems to have morphed into something different than I intended when I started it.

I had hoped to learn from people who have used both guide rail systems but that has not happened. Instead, the thread now seems to be mostly involve educating Eric and others about the Festool guide rails and other Festool products.

Eric, in your very First posting in the thread, you said "I don't own a FesTool but I've used one. It was ok.". However, I gather from other things that you have said that you have not actually used the Festool guide rails. Is this true?

The only person that I have corresponded with (but not in this thread) who has used both guide rails is Dino, the inventor of the EZ guide system. He would naturally be somewhat biased.

I am really curious about the advantages of the EZ system and, right now, am trying to locate someone nearby who would let me try it in order that I can do my own comparison. I will try on a couple of Canadian forums.

This thread has solved one mystery for me. In this and other threads, people have complained about the "tweak at the joint" where one connects two Festool rails. I never experienced this and now I have learned that the reason I have not had any such problems is that I have a more modern connection system with two bars. Great!

Eric, you ask me if I want to talk about the Kreg pocket hole system. I have read about it and it is very high up on my wish list (once I achieve a positive balance in my tool budget -maybe a year from now).

Two other things I should mention are that I agree with Jay:

(1) The rubber strips really do stick and the clamps seem to be unnecessary when used with the saw. I have used the clamps with expensive plywood but that is kind of like a really good driver on a very safe road with no traffic using seat belt.

(2) I am happy with the quality of the wood on both sides of the blade after the cut with the Festool circular saw. Like him, I assume that this is because of the high quality of the blade.

[JayStPeter]

Frank,

Sorry to take this a little more off your goals, but there looks to be a pretty good homemade guide rail in this months American Woodworker. If anyone is looking for a $30 solution, check it out. It appears to be a pretty good improvement on the homemade "zero clearance" guide that I was using. This one is zero clearance on both sides of the blade and locks the saw base into the guide.
I probably would have made a couple if I didn't already have the Festool.

More toward your goals:
Maybe Dino should furnish all the WW equipment review sites with his system like Festool seems to have done. Could be good advertising if he's confident in the system. I'm guessing Festool got some sales out of it. Those reviews and the forums encouraged me to go look at it. And, most importantly, you'll get what you want

Jay

Jay

[Gene Collison]

[QUOTE=Jim Becker]The EZGuide system looks nice...as a guide. But one thing that is in Festool's favor is the fact that it's not about the guide so much as it's about the system. Keep in mind that the Festool plunge saws, jigsaws and routers that ride on the guide also have extraordinary dust control...something that is missing when you use a "traditional" circular saw.

__________________________________________________ ______________

As the owner of all three tools, I would have to agree that the dust control on the plunge saw is extraordinary. I would rate the router dust control as not very effective. With the vac hose connected to the Jigsaw, is is a little difficult to see and steer. I usually don't connect it.

Gene

[Dino Makropoulos]

Hi Frank, jay, Bob, Eric, Jim, Crhis, Robert, Gene,You are all my friends. Two -Three weeks ago i was at the JLC live in Providence RI.There i ask one of my friends at Festool if i can use one of Festool saws with the EZSmart guide. I will only tell you that the look at his face and his answer was by far the best of not only JLC live but all the shows that i attend so far. And i know some of you may have similar reaction now. It will take some time to understand the design the features and the benefits of the the EZSmart guide system. So far we only have seen...Reactions instead. And this is very normal. On the other hand I will not get into (this VS that) for few reasons. 1. Like Frank says i will be bias. 2. I like Festool tools. 3. The Eureka challenge is not limited only to one co. Any one can use any tool ever made and win few thousand US dollars. Jay you ask abouy confidence..This weekend i will demo the EZSmart at the LI Woodworkers club show. WELCOME TO EUREKAZONE my friends. work safe and smart. Your friend. Dino the carpenter

[Chris Padilla]

Hi Dino,

Thanks for responding. What did the Festool reps say when you asked to try out their saw on your guide?

Will you be at the Sacramento wood show (April 30 - May 2)?

[eric hann]

Frank,
I have not used the rails.
To make a long story short, I bought the entire Kreg system at the show last Nov. Compliments my EZ Guide. Was just over $200 for the Kreg. Been using both quite a bit. Would be happy to share my experiences.
Hi Dino,
Haven't seen you since Denver. Remember me? I was the guy that came back and hammered you with questions all weekend.
Love the EZ Guide. No complaints. Table is really cool too. Haven't used the router base yet. Hope all is well.

[Dino Makropoulos]

Hi Chris. What do you tell some one when you know that he just come up with a brilliant idea with out tell him that he iis crazy (not because of his idea but.. of his thought. ) I will not be able to visit California this year. Thanks Your carpenterfriend Dino

[Dino Makropoulos]

Hi Eric. It's not every day that you try to sell one guide, and in the same day you sell two more to his friends. I don't wish that you loose your job in IBM but when you do...call me. And please, hands off FESTOOL. they're not the ones with stupid tools. A Few weeks ago at the builders show (Atlantic City Nj) I met a teenager with half of his hand missing, and you know what the funny think was? he wasn't even using the table saw.He was moving something on top of it, and the blade grabbed his hand. You see Eric the enemy is not our competition, but stupidity and ignorance.

Bye Eric,
Dino your carpenter friend

[eric hann]

Dino,
I've got no problem wit Festool. Actually learned a lot from this thread. Already asked my wife for a sander for Father's Day. As for the IBM thing... I'm in software engineering, not sales. Wouldn't know how to help ya :-)
At the woodworking show last November I paid for the class with the table saw guru, Kelly Mehler. He actually shows us "kickback". Shot a chunk of cardboard about 25 feet to a wall.
That was one of the things that had me focused on the EZGuide when I saw it. Table saw is now more of a dust collector (a very good one) :-)

Regards,
Eric