Shaper Rail & Stile set - bearing ("imports") vs. no bearing (Freud)???

[Steve Dewey]

The only set I've used so far had a bearing for the rail end cut - like this one

http://pricecutter.com/3-in-1-combin...ts/p/285-8570/ I have the 15* bevel set from here. Grizzly carries a similar setup.

I'm doing a new project and desire a new profile - I see Freud makes their sets w/o the bearing http://www.freudtools.com/p-369-34-s...s-beading.aspx

Or the http://www.freudtools.com/p-407-rs2000.aspx RS2000 insert system.

I've had decent success with the bearing version, but it still requires careful setup and I have to sneak up on the final cut or end up with a divot. Just wondering what y'all think of the non bearing version - easier? harder? With the bearing one I set the final length of the rail on the miter saw & then cope the ends. I imagine with the non-bearing set I can sneak up on the final length with the shaper, but can overshoot if not careful.

Personal preference is to buy the Freud brand - I can get it quick from Amazon.

Thoughts?

[John Carlo]

I use the Freud set with a sled with this cut. The hardest part is aligning the shaper fence square to the miter sled fence while making sure the shaper fence is perfectly aligned to the deepest part of the cutter. Once this is done, the final length of the stock you shape is the same as what you started with.

[Jeff Duncan]

I haven't tried the bearing sets, to be honest didn't even know they made stile & rail sets with bearings. In answer to your question it's pretty easy and straightforward using the standard sets, (non-bearing), you either set your fence as the bearing surface to control depth of cut. Or (and this should only be done with a power feeder) you use an auxilary fence with the parts run between the cutter and fence.
I always go with the better quality cutters, just saves frustration down the road.
good luck,
JeffD

[Peter Quinn]

I'm a little confused by your reference to "bearings" relative to the rail cope cut using a shaper. The price cutter set does not have any 'bearings' included, it places a 'spacer' between the top and bottom cutter on the cope stack. Most people refer to a 'bearing' on a shaper stack as a rub collar (which spins like a router bearing), which is used above or below the cutters for template work or profiles on curved pieces. Different thing completely. Not trying to argue terms with you but that might cause some confusion.

I think you will find that most of the better tool makers include a cutter instead of a spacer for the center spot on the rail (cope) cutter. I find this easier when using a solid fence setup as you can back the fence into the spinning head then stand no chance of the rails slipping into the gap as in a split fence setup. You also get a ZCI effect which can minimize chip out on woods where that might be a problem.

In reality there isn't much difference between the two possibilities as far as I can tell. I'm not sure what your method of coping the rails entails, but for every method I've seen the center cutter would be as or nearly as easy to set up as the spacer. If you prefer the spacer as a reference for setup with a cutter set that includes a center cutter instead, spacers are generally available, just purchase one the same OD and thickness as the cutter it will be replacing. Spacers are not typically very expensive which is why cheaper sets include them rather than a center cutter.

Presently I am using a shop built phenolic coping sled of my own design which makes either type of cope cutter stack or insert cutters equally easy to set up and use without a solid fence. It includes a replaceable backer block and hold downs, much safer and easy to set up.

[Steve Dewey]

Thanks guys - looking at the set tonight it is a "spacer" as Peter described not a bearing or rub collar. My method for coping is to set the "input" side of the fence in the same plane as the spacer and then use the miter gauge set at 90 to the fence to cope the rail. I use a backer board behind the rail to minimize tear out. I've been eying the sturdier coping sleds vs. the miter gauge - sounds like it might be worth the cost/effort.

[J.R. Rutter]

I think that the sets that have a cutter instead of a spacer are easier to set up and more consistent in use. Because you can trim the end of the stub tenon while you cut the cope shoulders, you can easily use the sled / backer board to set up the fence. It also squares the ends up to avoid any visible gap at the bottom of the groove. A shaper that has a fence that you can bolt parallel to the miter gauge and then move in/out is much easier. Here is the coping sled that I use for production. I have two of them and they get lots of use...



This shows how I square the backer to the fence (initially or as needed). The backer registers on the two bolts running through the back of the sled and is held by a small toggle. Because the end gets trimmed (about 0.01") you can release the backer and push it against the fence to get a fresh surface from time-to-time.



Here is an overall view of the sled. I don't like the fences on these shapers, but we don't move them so only the initial setup was a pain.

[Steve Flavin001]

might be an issue. More to your point, I get great results by a) setting the fence to line with the rub collar/bearing, essential for depth, and make it in two passes b) it is CRITICAL to use a good coping sled, not just a miter fence, with good hold down clamps, and backer board.

Setting the sled fence 90 deg to the shaper fence is easy using a small flat square.

If I read you note correctly, you are using a miter fence only and that will not work reliably. While the major brands Freud, Whiteside et. are certainly preferable, I got adequate results from the off brands before I stepped up to the majors.