Mixing brands of finish....

[Michael Donahue]

Hello all! I recently built a bed of oak and oak plywood for the panels. From some stuff I read, I figured I'd try gel stain so that the plywood and solid wood would stain more evenly. I used a General gel stain that went on beautifully and uniformly, and I let it dry for 24-30 hours or so. Then I used Minwax wipe-on poly on top but it seemed to pull up the stain in a few places. I didn't expect this to happen both were oil based and the gel stain (according to the can) should have been dry after 8 hours.

Was it a bad idea to mix brands of finish? Should I have waited longer with the stain? I was working in my shop (i.e. basement!) and the temp was 70 or below and it wasn't too humid.

I managed to make it look decent after some swearing and sanding and restaining in a few spots, but I'd like to know where I went wrong.

Here's a few pics of the bed too. The problem is I have plans to build more furniture for this bedroom but I don't want to run into this problem every time. Thanks so much for the help!

[Steve Wylie]

I can't address the root of your problem because I just don't have the experience. Nonetheless, I can offer a solution for future projects that will allow you to match the work you've done so far. Just use a coat of blonde shellac to seal between the stain and the finish. It shouldn't change the final look of the project.

[Prashun Patel]

I've had the same problem. I believe the issue is time.

There are 3 parts to the stain: the colorant, the solvent, and a sealer (poly varnish in yr case). The solvent dissolves the colorant and delivers it into the wood. Once the solvent evaporates, the varnish starts to harden and seals the colorant in. Once hard, the varnish chemically alters and forms an impervious barrier to additional topcoats. If the sealer hasn't fully dried, then the solvents in the poly topcoat can get at the colorant, and redissolve it, and carry it off the wood with your brush or rag.

So, the piece probably just didn't dry long enough.

Shellac is often used between stain and top coats for 2 reasons: 1) It hardens quickly, so you can topcoat very quickly (it can also be used to fill pores as an alternate to pore filler) 2) It's almost universally compatible with finishes, so you can use it to 'prime' a water based stain for an oil topcoat or vice versa.

Caveat: regular shellac you'll find in the BORG's (Zinsser, etc) is 'waxed' which can make it a problem under polyurethane topcoats. Dewaxed shellac is compatible with oil, water, and poly, so it's safer to use this if you want to shellac. Zinsser calls its version "Sealcoat".

Another caveat: I wouldn't apply shellac on the stain if the problem is that the stain sealers haven't fully hardened. The shellac will prevent the sealer from properly curing which can sabotage the shellac and topcoats. Usually, you'd use a shellac with a dye, that doesn't have it's own sealers that need to cure.

[Steve Schoene]

The pictures show quite a dark stain. Usually that is very hard to achieve with a pigmented stain on oak. That suggests that the source of your problem may be that you did not wipe off the excess stain thoroughly. Stain left to dry on the surface is quite prone to being wiped off when top coats are applied, particularly those that are wiped on, where the mechanical action increases the impact. Usually to get oak that dark requires a dye as the first step.

[Ryan Sparreboom]

The pictures show quite a dark stain. Usually that is very hard to achieve with a pigmented stain on oak. That suggests that the source of your problem may be that you did not wipe off the excess stain thoroughly. Stain left to dry on the surface is quite prone to being wiped off when top coats are applied, particularly those that are wiped on, where the mechanical action increases the impact. Usually to get oak that dark requires a dye as the first step.

+1
On top of that, Gel stain does not penetrate as well as liquid oil or water based stains. So you likely had some excess still on the wood. There is a difference between dryed and cured.
For you next pieces, see if you can find a liquid stain in the same color and Brand that you used in Gel stain. Then do a test board and see if it matches the piece you already made.