Will Grizzley accessories fit Powermatic stuff?

[Eric Commarato]

I have a Powermatic 26 shaper with a interchangeable spindle. I am shopping for a router bit collet spindle to use in the machine. I saw that Grizzley sells them for about 1/2 the price as other folks. I called Grizzley technical support and spoke with a very nice technical guy. He thought the router bit collet would fit Shop Fox as well as their machinery, and thought this would probably work on Powermatic machines as well. Has anyone been able to use a Grizzley router bit collet on a Powermatic 26?

I also asked the tech guy about the r.p.m. of a shaper versus a router. It is my understanding that a smaller router bit runs at a higher r.p.m than a shaper cutter, like 15,000-25,000 rpm. Most shapers run at 2 speeds 7,000 r.p.m. and 10,000 r.p.m. The tech guy at Grizzley said a larger router bit like a panel raising bit would work o.k. chucked up in a shaper running at a lower speed. Any comments on this?

Thanks

Eric

[Peter Quinn]

I have no idea if the spindles are interchangeable having not seen the grizzly. I can tell you they don't fit my Delta. I have changed spindles on a powermatic 27 a few times, it involved the whole cartridge assembly. I'd be talking more specifically with each manufacturer about things like shaft OD and cartridge yoke ID, etc. Unless grizzly has a liberal return policy, than you can just get one and send it back if it won't fit. I doubt an older (anything pre 2700) PM shaper is metric, and I really doubt a Griz made in Chiwan is SAE. These things need to fit better than just 'close' spinning at those RPM's.

As far as utility? For me, I'd rather spin a shaper panel raiser in a shaper than a router bit because you get:

1) Faster tip speed due to the larger diameter cutter,

2) much more gentle exit angle resulting in a cleaner cut at faster feed rates due to the larger diameter cutter.

3) less deflection resulting in faster feed rate potential and cleaner cuts due to, you guessed it, larger diameter cutter.

4) typically thicker carbide that can be sharpened more times, and an over all more durable cutter due to having thicker steel at the thinnest part around the spindle.

Seems like the best of both worlds spending on a router bit and getting shaper performance? Except you won't and it isn't. Just because they can make a router collet that can hold a router panel raiser doesn't mean it will perform like a shaper. My shaper can push out a nice panel in one pass per side, maybe two if the wood is difficult or very hard or the profile very deep. My guess is that if you push a router panel bit with a 3-5 HP induction motor and take one or two passes, sooner or later your going to hear (crack) and see pieces of bit flying about the room.

So by buying router panel bits and a router collet spindle you may save a bit of money, will waste a lot of time, and could get hurt real bad if your in a hurry. As for spinning small bits at 10,000 RPMs, they wont work well and why bother?

I think Felder is maybe the only company making a router collet spindle for their shaper that turns at appropriate speeds to utilize many router bits (15,000 RPM's). And for $8000 you should get a lot of shaper too, no?

I'm using the Freud RP2000 insert set presently. Seems like a lot of money till you realize how well it works and how much it does. A 5 1/2" doughnut works a lot harder than a 2 3/4" bit. Infinity Tool has some reasonably priced shaper cutters that work well too.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, actually shaper speeds often are in the 3,000 to 10,000 RPM range.

As was previously mentioned, shaper cutters have better cutting geometry, cut much cleaner and faster than a router bit, and produce superior surface finish.

Large diameter shaper cutters, either HSS or Carbide are capable of hogging off material in one pass, something a raised panel router bit won't be able to do. Watch a sharp shaper cutter in action, and you can see large chips being sliced off, not ground into dust like a router bit cuts.

In addition, a power feeder is almost a must for clean, consistent cuts, and to optimize feed rates. I find I feed too slowly when manually feeding, and it reduces cutter life. Not to mention the fact that material is held down onto the table, and pushed into the fence with considerable force. Profiles are perfect, and it makes the ultimate guard, if my hands aren't on the table, they can't get cut.

Shapers and router tables look similar, however they are very different pieces of machinery. More complimentary than similar, in my opinion.

Shapers also have superior fence systems, dust collection and of course you don't find any "my shaper table isn't flat" posts on the forum.

That said, I have used the occasional small router bit in my shaper, and it cuts just like a router bit running too slowly in a router table.

If you are concerned about the cost of shaper cutters, are are only using solid wood, purchase a cutter head that takes HSS knives. These heads produce a superior finish in solids, and last a long time, if used at the correct tip speeds and feed rates. Most of these knives are available for aproximately $20 per pair.

In my opinion, router tables are more popular than shapers for two reasons;

1) shapers have a reputation for being dangerous, which they are. Safety precautions must be followed, however the same is true for routers. I don't think my fingers can tell the difference between being mangled by a 2 inch cutter at 10,000 RPM, or a 4 inch cutter at 5,000 RPM.

2) Many people receive a router for birthday or Christmas gifts. I can't remember the last time I saw a woman heading out of the machinery store with a nice Felder shaper under her arm.

Regards, Rod.