New Business Plan

[Frank Corker]

Also, I guess I was surprised that there are so many business failures.....I haven't really read anything about that on the net and the number of used lasers for sale seems relatively small.

Well the thing is that they are a really good toy as well. Very stimulating for the mind and the satisfaction of being able to turn out beautiful things sometimes outweighs sad old money. That is a fact in my opinion!

.

[David Darnell]

"The Best way to make a small fortune with a Laser Engraver is to start with a bigger fortune" - Shamelessly stolen from a old saying about farming

[Pete Simmons]

"The Best way to make a small fortune with a Laser Engraver is to start with a bigger fortune" - Shamelessly stolen from a old saying about farming

Works well with Aircraft and Boats also!

[Joe Pelonio]

I'll help with the original question about profits with this example.

This is wholesale, periodic production job, so is priced lower than retail. There are 100 of these, which take about 15 minutes each laser time on Rowmark
Lasermax, 2 fit on a 12x24 sheet.

I'm just finishing for delivery tomorrow, and did them over a week while squeezing in other laser jobs and working on vinyl sign jobs while these engraved. Total profit for the job is $900.

[David Fairfield]

If you already have sales experience with a proven product, and can use a laser to make more of them them better, faster and cheaper, then you're on to something. But buying a laser and then fishing around for a product and an audience to sell to, its pretty risky.

On the other hand, like Frank said, it is a very interesting and fun tool, so if you can spare the money and the time, you won't have any regrets.

I've had my machine about for 3 years of trial and error, and just beginning to see profitable results now. I could make a lot more money at a desk job, but hell with that!

Dave

[Steve Clarkson]

Joe, does it REALLY take an hour or more to engrave a portrait on an 8" tile (even with 120 watts?)???? And in your other example, are you saying that your profit was $9 per piece......or $36/hr? If so, now I see why you guys don't think it's a good idea to start a laser business from scratch!

One more question......if power is for cutting and not engraving....are you saying that a 25 watt machine will engrave a photo in about the same time that a 120 watt machine will?

Thanks again for your input.

[Dee Gallo]

Steve, you didn't mention if you have any computer graphics skills. That seems to be a huge factor in time for a lot of people. I spent the last 30 years teaching art, commercial art and computer graphics so that was the easy part for me - but designing is still a time thief. Also, I am able to integrate lots of techniques into my work which other people might not be able to do easily. But I can tell you from experience that a new student will spend about 4 months, working all day on the computer and THEN finally be able to do WHATEVER he wants on both paint and draw programs. Before that, you spend a lot of time learning as you go, taking the long way around work and tweaking what might not be the best design solution anyway. For example, if you can't draw on your own, you are stuck with using clipart all the time and those searches can be more time consuming than making the image yourself. Then, altering the clipart so it will work with a laser is another ball of string to unwind. Many people on this forum have recommended getting the software to practice with before you get your laser. That's good advice. For me, using the laser is the easiest, least time spent on my work. It's just a tool you have to learn how to use. That's the fun part.

cheers, dee

[Mike Null]

Since I don't engrave on stone I probably should defer to those who do but 120 watts for engraving is overkill. About 80 watts would be tops for engraving if you had a superfast machine like Trotec or Xenetech.

My guess is that there are many more retail operations with lasers of 40 watts or less than those who have more.

Whatever you choose to do the key to success is your ability to market your business. I personally know of people, one in NY, who floundered with the idea that they could engrave cute stuff on stone.

Impulse buying in the engraving business is nearly non-existent.

We are an occasion based business (retailers) who do weddings, anniversaries, birthdays, graduations, retirements etc.

Recently a number of Things Remembered franchises have bit the dust and those are pretty complete engraving operations with a full array of engravables. I suspect that excessive rent was one of the killers.

[James Stokes]

When you are engraving photographs the time depends alot on the dpi you are using. I have a 100 watt epilog and a 35 watt Vytek. With the 100 watt I engrave a 12 x 12 stone in about 8 minutes on the Vytek the same image will take about 28 minutes. The biggest time eater is the prep on the photos. Some I can have ready in 2 or 3 minutes others I may spend a day or more to get close to what I want.

[martin g. boekers]

How do you get an engraver off the front porch?
Pay him for the pizza

[Joe Pelonio]

Joe, does it REALLY take an hour or more to engrave a portrait on an 8" tile (even with 120 watts?)???? And in your other example, are you saying that your profit was $9 per piece......or $36/hr? If so, now I see why you guys don't think it's a good idea to start a laser business from scratch!

One more question......if power is for cutting and not engraving....are you saying that a 25 watt machine will engrave a photo in about the same time that a 120 watt machine will?

Thanks again for your input.

Yes, I have done wedding photos on 8" tiles and it's taken about an hour. I only have 45 watts but like I said the 120 watt doesn't engrave any faster, it's the motor speed that affects engraving time.

In my example the profit was $900, I didn't say how much I charged per piece or per hour, the profit is after overhead, materials etc. Yes, you could say that the profit per hour on that job was $36/hr and you could say it was $9 each. The point is that I was producing other things and revenue with other work during most of that time while they were running, using other equipment.
There are some materials where the power allows a faster run speed for engraving, such as hardwood where I might run at 30% speed with 45 watts, someone else with 120 watts might run at 100% speed to burn the same depth.

Many, if not most though, such as this job, I run at 100% speed. I just have to use more power than a 120 watt, but the speed is the same with the same motor setup.

[Steve Clarkson]

James, Now that is what I was assuming.......that a 12" stone could be done in fifteen minutes or so with the right powered laser.

Dee, I have some computer skills, but not Corel.....but I assumed that I could learn it enough to use it in a short time.

When I was thinking of a mall, I was thinking that I could have 15-20 standard items (12" stone portraits, wooden photo albums, onyx necklaces, ipods, etc.) and that if I was doing them over and over and over again and simply changing the photo and text, that I would get to be pretty adept at doing it.....so it wouldn't be like doing a brand new project every time.

[Darren Null]

I have some computer skills, but not Corel.....but I assumed that I could learn it enough to use it in a short time.

Don't. Corel is not intuitive. Also, it has issues with every other piece of software. And file formats. You're OK with .TIF, provided you don't use any of the fancy TIF options. Just giving the bloody program data it isn't going to bugger up is a 3-month learning curve all on it's own if you're starting cold.

[Harry Radaza]

my 2c

I do run a mall kiosk type outlet. No I cannot put my machine due to space and vent issues. I did however put an artist inside the kiosk with a computer so he can prepare the orders for me.

Actual machines (3) are in my shop. only 1 machine is dedicated to the mall stuff. the rest are for volume jobs. As for the mall operation... i would love to shut it down. But... it is bringing in about 30% of my sales. I could do with out the backjobs that clients bring back. I do photogs on wood. I could also do without the pesky clients from the mall.

As for the volume jobs, well, they keep the rest of the machines busy. I have a niche market and do subcontract work for a lot of the other companies here so they come to me.

If you are in it for the mall type thing you are in trouble.

[Rodne Gold]

Stone is bleached by the laser , not really "engraved" so 2 x 25w for the price of 1 x 75w will double the thruput of the single machine as you dont need 75w.
We have 6 x 30w machines and have NEVER had to turn any significant job away cos of lack of power.
Your best bet as an "add on" machine if you have a laser is a conventional computerised engraver/light duty router.
the 2nd best add on would be a digital print and cut machine like a Roland SP300 which can do stickers and banners and vinyl cutting etc etc.
The biggest problem you face is that you are getting into a field in whaich you are totally inexperienced and are competing agianst folk who are far more experienced than you and have far less overheads and have capital equipment that is almost or fully paid for , they will kill you in the market.
You are a banker......would you advance a loan or invest in or even advise someone that came to you with your plan?
Despite my doom and gloom , I do have a suggestion.
Buy one of the cheap glass tubed chinese machines , $3-5k , you can play with it and dip your toes in the water without it being a huge financial stress and if it doesnt work , well 5k is no where near a 30-50k loss .....