New Business Plan

[Scott Shepherd]

This is probably one of the best threads on the laser forum in my opinion. I think it shows that the sales pitch being used is far from reality. So many people who have been doing this for any period of time all say the exact same thing.

Great, great thread, and in my opinion, should be a sticky in this section of the forum.

If anyone is thinking about buying a laser, this is a MUST read for them.

[Mike Null]

Peter

when a good resume will get you a well paid job, with a tenth of the stress, car paid for, phone paid for, medical benefits, holidays, public holidays, sick leave, bonuses, incentives??????????

That may work down under but many of the people here are trying to supplement retirement income (frequently a necessity) or have been down-sized or merged or exported out of a job.

We have lost our industrial base and with it the hundreds of thousands of jobs that went with it.

When that happens the jobs you're talking about are few and far between. They then go to much younger and cheaper people who may also be better educated.

[Joe Pelonio]

Peter



That may work down under but many of the people here are trying to supplement retirement income (frequently a necessity) or have been down-sized or merged or exported out of a job.

We have lost our industrial base and with it the hundreds of thousands of jobs that went with it.

When that happens the jobs you're talking about are few and far between. They then go to much younger and cheaper people who may also be better educated.

With all of the layoffs these days, there are many well educated and experienced people fighting for $10/hour jobs, and those are about all that are available. Most without benefits. I have also heard of many companies either ending or cutting way back their contribution for medical. Still, I would think it very difficult to make a living with just the laser unless you have good steady production jobs.

[Bob Davis]

Now that it's all looking doom and gloom, try taking a different approach; what about buying an existing business? The marketing and arranging have all been put in place, there is a record of turnover and profit, you get training, you don't face the same huge risks that a startup incurs and you know what you are getting.
Certainly there are lots of examples of people making a go of a startup from day 1, but there are many more examples of it being a complete failure. Unless you know exactly what you are doing and have a really good plan (and a bit of luck!) it is likely to all end in tears. A purchase can be a much safer and ultimately more profitable arrangement.

[Craig Hogarth]

Still, I would think it very difficult to make a living with just the laser unless you have good steady production jobs.

Very true. I'm only doing lasering but plan on adding a CNC hopefully within a year. I'm still in the learning process and I'm not ready to take on an another challenge yet.

But for those who are only buying a laser, there are plenty of other services/products you can offer without buying equipment. Outsourcing works quite well and considering the amount of work involved (basically faxing an order), it is much more profitable than lasering.

[Miguel Pinho]

Hello

Do you know what type of material lasertile used to do the Elvis image on their website?

[Dan Hintz]

Hello

Do you know what type of material lasertile used to do the Elvis image on their website?

Uhm... they used LaserTile... that's the product.

[Phil Thien]

Personally, I would love to have a mall location. Every Things Remembered I've seen in a mall has always had customers in it. I don't know how much they do in sales, but they definitely don't have a problem getting people in the door. While rent would be considerably higher, I'm sure you wouldn't have spend nearly as much on marketing than would with another location.

Malls are hurting for tenants right now, and will often offer short-term leases and even free rent for several months to get you to try one.

[Brian Knuckles]

I've talked to the guy over there that runs there sales..His name is Danny. They won't give you ideas in running, but he will share ideas with you on what others are doing to make money.

I'm sure the more you buy from him, the more info he'll give you...lol =)
It doesn't hurt to ask

[pete hagan]

I hope as a banker you were exposed to the volume of business failures compared to startups. 50% or better in the first year alone.

I have to echo everyone above. Look for niche markets in your area where the clients will pay for YOUR service. Yes you are selling a product that costs "x" and you'll sell for "Y" but really what is the spread between X & Y?? It's what the market will bear not necessarily what you are worth or the amount of time spent making the item. FIND MARKETS THAT PAY FOR YOUR TIME / EFFORT!

I would strongly suggest that you explore the opportunities where you make premium rates from your products and the laser is simply creating parts or all of the product. The goal is that the client is paying for your experience and service more so than buying an item engraved. What you'll see online here is that there are sign shops with lasers in use, some different shops that provide trophy / awards with a laser in use (they may have manual as well), specialty business that use the laser to create goods used in their products or services like cutting plexi for pinball machines (someone here does that and has a great website I just don't recall who) and then those people who use the laser to supplement their pensions / other income. These last folks are the ones that can afford to spend the time to make a product right and only get “Y” from it.

Here’s an example. Cracker Barrel restaurants has this little game on the table which is a triangle of wood, lots of holes and golf pegs… You’ve played it I’m sure. The little company that makes this product for them makes ~~400,000 units a year to sell through CB (The story is on the table to read about). They do not use a laser (they should for the engraving) but I’m certain have some automated machine that cuts, drills, stamps this item for very little cost. That’s the ticket and I don’t mean finding some restaurant chain to sell your widget at 10X the cost with your net being 3X cost. If you do find that product and chain then send me a commission or a free lunch for turning you onto the idea.

So the delima is to find the need where the laser will provide a working solution, or design something where the laser is part of your toolkit to create the product and sell for a high profit margin. Selling lasered items at a retail kiosk without LOTS of other specialty items is a quick way, IMHO, of losing lots of money. I think you’d make more selling snow cones in the summer at baseball games that you would with 12 months in a retail kiosk. But that’s my opinion and I may be wrong..

Bets of luck…er…BEST of luck.

Pete

[Dan Hintz]

Here’s an example. Cracker Barrel restaurants has this little game on the table which is a triangle of wood, lots of holes and golf pegs… You’ve played it I’m sure. The little company that makes this product for them makes ~~400,000 units a year to sell through CB (The story is on the table to read about).

Maybe 400k units the first year? Once each table has a game, I don't seem many replacements being made. I'm sure they sell a few in the gift shop, and there will be a few more for new restaurants opening up, but a continual 400k/yr? I would have some serious doubts about that #...

[pete hagan]

I had a hard time believing it as well but I had already asked this question of a regional mgr and he said it was the most consistent seller in the gift shop over all other toys they carry. I think it sells for about $3 USD. I agree I couldn't believe it myself but after asking this guy I believe it may be correct.
From CB website - -There are 588 stores and they have:
Net Sales: $2.38 billion (fiscal year ending August 1, 2008)
Per Unit Averages: 7,350 guests per week / $4.18 million in annual sales
Here’s a picture of what I'm talking about:


Even if the guy is making $0.50 per unit that's a nice 200K annually, nothing to sneeze at and they ARE made in the USA!

OK I just searched and found this little bit of info on the CB site:
http://www.crackerbarrel.com/games-kids.cfm?doc_id=217

Peg Game HistoryThe Peg Games we use at Cracker Barrel Old Country Store® are made by Qualls and Sons Novelties, a local Lebanon, Tennessee manufacturer. Years ago, Ollie Qualls and his son Adrian worked in a 10' x 10' room, drilling holes and counting pegs by hand. Today, they make over 18,000 games per week exclusively for Cracker Barrel. You’ll find the Peg Game in our retail store and at last count, we’d sold over 1.5 million.

Holy BAT S%#T Robin... that's more than the little table display indicated. That's a niche product I'd take any day!

Pete

[Dee Gallo]

Simply amazing. Just goes to show, there is a niche for everyone out there.

dee

[Dan Hintz]

I'll follow Frank's lead, then, and eat my hat... those numbers do seem reasonable.

[pete hagan]

Steve, If you read through the posts you will find some very valuable advice in that buying a laser to start a business with no proven product / demand is the quick way to frustration. Retail is hit or miss and frankly it takes the same amount of paperwork to generate a $20 item as it does a bulk sale of $1,000. The work will be different and you will be making lots more of something but the management headache is the same.

Here's a suggestion, take a drive to a regional state park which may have a gift shop and look around. Are there custom items for sale? Ask where they get them etc.. Now go to a local winery and same thing. Look at any location where the customized nick nacks are something you can produce from scratch or pre-made products that are lasered. That is one opening to production work.

On the other hand I am constantly amazed, and jealous, of the artisans on this site. Their products are pieces of art who’s value is a matter of the heart and market. If you are artsy then the laser is one hell of a tool for many mediums. If you are a wannabe artisan, like me, then it can help you produce something of added value IF you have a market for it. If you want to really explore options then take a week to discover every conceivable item that can be cut or engraved with a laser. From industrial gaskets, paper figures, electrical panel plates, water / conduit ID tags, custom machine control panels, etc… and that’s not really doing the laser justice. Find a market that is not terribly depressed right now and focus on what goods can be created for that market and that will PAY for goods. That means stay away from real estate, education, automotive and a variety of other markets. If you want to start small go to places that are recession proof. Funeral homes, weddings, bat/bar mitzvahs (sp) etc. It would be only small orders but allow you to perfect your craft as you get ramped up for sales.

I recently completed a series of wall panels for a local businessman that were scenes showing his business. (I’m waiting for pictures installed). It was a custom job that came through a contractor. (wooden business cards…hint hint) I spent probably 20 hours on the graphics and another 40+ engraving on these large wall panels. Luckily I bought a machine that would pass thru a 36” wide panel so I could create large scenes. The contractor supplied the material and I simply engraved. It was a blast to experience and a huge learning curve in registration to create large displays. BTW Oak is NOT the best material to laser but it still worked out well. The finished product was 8 panels 3’ X 6’ and I made $4000 for the job. I had targeted making $75.00 per hour machine time and $100 per hour graphics / programming time. I missed that mark but came pretty close. Will I get another like this? I’ll never count on it but I did land a nice order for room ID plates for a hotel that is upgrading their meeting room space. It was a friend of the end client that saw the panels when the contractor brought them in to install and immediately saw a way to upgrade what was already planned. I’ll be making (30) 16” X 20” frosted glass plates with the identifier engraved on the reverse side. They supply the product again…happy happy! I’ll make more in hourly rate from this job than from the big panels and much easier but I only got this job because of the last job because of those wooden business cards I handed out at a local business breakfast I attended LAST YEAR! I never thought of either opportunities they found me because I was out shaking hands and meeting people.

So GO MEET PEOPLE and think of products that are needed. I do wish you the best and if you work hard at getting in front of enough people you’ll wind up with sales. I think it was the Fuller Brush company that promoted knocking on doors…..


Pete