Multi-router vs horizontal slot mortiser

[Gregory Stahl]

I have decided to add one of these to the shop, but am having a very difficult time deciding which. The Multi-router looks fantastic, but at its price I could purchase a nice mortiser.

I read the earlier posts regarding the Laguna Platinum Mortiser, and in talking to the Laguna sales rep, it sounds like they have made some substantial changes to this machine just recently, making it much stronger, but still keeping the low price. Laguna makes a nice mortiser for about $4000 which looks like it would be the best thing on the market for the money; however, I cannot find any reviews of it anywhere.

Also in consideration is the Felder FD 250 and the Hammer D3. These machines have been equally difficult to find user reviews.

And finally, I have found a used Frommia moriser for about $700 which looks ok, but I fear the table just isn't as precise as the newer machines.

Which one would you use and why? Is there another machine I should consider? I'm not interested in making a jig or modifying some other machine to make it work as a horizontal slot mortiser.

Thanks for any info, opinions or experiences anyone can offer.

Greg Stahl

[Thomas S Stockton]

Greg,
I have a multi router and really like it, I got it used for around $800 10 years ago. If I were in your situation right now I would run and pick up the used one for $700 actually I would have been in my truck a minute after hearing about it. As long as it is not really worn out and abused it should be a good machine and way more substantial than the Laguna. I don't think the accuracy of the tables will be a problem since the industrial slot mortisers are actually pretty basic machines and have a lot of adjustments.
If I were to decide today between a multi router and a slot mortiser I'm not sure which one I would choose but I would be leaning towards the slot mortiser since I never use the multi router to cut tenons I only use it for mortises.
Some people are going to tell you to get a domino, I have one and see it as complimentary to the multi router especially if you need larger mortises.
Invicta also makes a mortiser in the same price range of the multi router.
Tom

[Frank Drew]

I really like horizontal slot mortisers and find them a significant improvement over hollow chisel mortisers in addition to being much more versatile. I had an Italian machine made by CM and was overall very pleased with it but have never used a multi-router so can't compare the two. I think that a slot mortiser might prove stronger and more accurate over a longer lifetime.

Peter Quinn has posted recently on his new Laguna slot mortiser (maybe it was the Platinum?) and it would be worth looking up his posts.

[Peter Quinn]

I have the laguna slot mortiser in my shop presently. The connection between the base and the square steel tube which holds the table is a joke. The machine as delivered bounces around like a monkey on a tall flag pole. But for the $999 price point, the rest of the machine works pretty well. I posted pics of my remedy a few weeks ago which involves a few big bolts, some strong 3/8" steel angle irons and a 12" thick masonry wall. It doesn't move any more...not even a little bit. Funny how bolting a #300 machine to a 50 ton wall adds stability.

I had a problem with the top rails that make the longitudinal movement being bent, Laguna fedex'd me a perfect set which I have yet to install. I just ran the table a little loose and sloppy to get through a window job I'm doing. With bent rails the table was binding up when the slop was taken out via the set screws.

Once I put down the 3' straight edge and dial indicators and cut some test mortises I was pleasantly surprised to find it is cutting pretty much dead accurate slots. I cut a series of 2" deep 3/8" mortises and all were quick and perfect. The machine doesn't feel like it ought to be accurate, but some how it is!

Its got a good vibration free motor, electric brake and a decent Wescott chuck. For an entry level machine in a small shop I would actually recommend it at this point. Take note that it is LEFT HAND ROTATION (ie opposite most standard drill bits and tooling) and I'm told, though have not been given an explanation why by the tech reps, it should not be run in reverse. Bummer for those with tooling already and tougher to get drill bits.

Its got a pretty simple but accurate dowel alignment bar included that I have not battle tested but may prove handy in the future.

Other slot mortiser options are Griggio, Paloma, Rojek (strikingly similar to the Laguna, I test drove one at a show recently, does have reversing motor standard), and Invicta. The Laguna for $4000 is a Griggio, I have seen the same model for sale in NJ for $3000 under the Griggio label. It has a moving head (higher quality design) which also tilts for louvered work, and the table moves on X-roller bearings which can be set precisely and adjusted over the lifetime of the machine. With a stationary table and moving head its easier to build in feed and out feed support, and the table is typically much more rigid, but the cost is much higher too.

I haven't used a multi router but I have used a big plunge router with a jig and I prefer the slot mortiser as a quieter, less dusty option. It is also considerably quicker than my router when you get into 3/8"-1/2" slots deeper than 1". I hope to upgrade this mortiser when I have made enough money with it to pay for another, but I am sold on the concept of the machine, and the Laguna platinum is serviceable. Laguna has a good vid of it in action on their sight, and a great vid of the higher end Griggio model as well. Also the Garniga long solid carbide mortising bits Laguna sells are the real deal, very nice bits if you need the carbide. I have a set of onsrud 24-300 series bits coming next week in HSS, much cheaper for shallower slots.

I would strongly urge you to see the machines you are considering in person if at all possible, especially in the $2500 to $4000 price range. I never bought a chisel mortiser (though I have used them at work), but if I had one I would have thrown it out the window by now. Although many use them to square up the shoulders of the mortises for integral tennons, and that might be handy?

[Gregory Stahl]

Thanks for the the responce Peter. I was wondering if you would recommend the Laguna now that you have it functioning. IN talking with Laguna, they have modified the machine to address the issues you and others have experienced. It is supposed to be much heavier now, and they have removed the rods in favor of a V-grove. They sent me a couple pictures to show me the modifications, but I'm leary about posting them as they attached a bunch of legal junk to the email with them.

I am very excited though--the wife is now on board and approved the aquisition of a new machine!

Also, I was able to look over the Frommia today. It was manufactured in 1982 and looks a bit old, but it does have the feel of being beefier old iron. I am a bit concerned as the dovetails for the table were a bit sloppy, but there is adjusting screws that should tighten this up. Does anyone see any problems with this? Also, the table on this machine was pretty small, and the owner has attached a piece of plywood to the top. The hold downs are damaged too, and custom clamps are included that bolt to the wood top. The machine runs great though, smooth and quiet!

The reason they are getting rid of it is they have purchased the Laguna LBM 200. They are not completely sold on this machine though. So far, one of the front pipe threads has broken off--not that they need it, it is just for moving the machine. In addition, they don't care for the handle that locks the table when adjusting using the dowel feature. It is made out of plastic and feels cheep.

So, it will be nice if I can find a Felder machine around to take a look at. Until then, I think it is a toss up between the used machine and the lower priced Laguna model. I think I could easily sell the Laguna if I decide to upgrade to a nicer machine at a later date. Felder is offering a discount on the FD 250, and I would like to see the Hammer D3 for about $2000 as well.

Any Felder fans out there?

Thanks, Greg Stahl

[Bernhard Lampert]

....Any Felder fans out there?

Thanks, Greg Stahl

At least one fan out here: I have some Felder including the horizontal mortiser (FD250 with 3-phase motor). Overall I am very satisfied with all Felder equipment. IMHO, best price to value ratio.
I haven't used the mortiser a lot and I don't have a multi router, so I can't compare. But I can attest to the nice fit and finish, smooth moving table, tight fit (there is NO backlash/play or slop in any adjustment). The machine runs very smooth and quiet, w/o any vibrations.
In case you live somewhere near Raleigh/Durham, NC, come on by and take a look!

Cheers,
Bernhard

[Gregory Stahl]

Thanks Bernhard! I would take you up on that offer, but I live just south of Madison Wisconsin.

I'm planning to attend the IWF show next month. I'll probably have to wait until then to see one, but I would like to make my decesion and purchase in the next few days.

I called Felder and asked if there is anyone near me that has one. They could only find someone in Milwaukee who has the D3--I think.

Best,
Greg

[Mike Henderson]

I just love the horizontal slot mortiser for making mortises - very quick, very easy. The multi-router seems to take more setup. I've only used fairly big (industrial) slot mortisers so I don't know how that would compare to the Laguna (just a comment - the Laguna having only left hand rotation is a real bummer).

But an industrial level slot mortiser will take a lot of room compared to the multi-router.

For building chairs you just can't beat a horizontal slot mortiser.

Mike

[Peter Quinn]

The table on the Laguna Platinum is also a bit small for my work, so I built a plywood top ala Mark Singer. It was pretty easy and helps out a lot for setting stops on repeat cuts and angled cuts.

Curious that Laguna is re engineering the mortiser on the fly. I wish they had done that sort of thing pre production. I think the best way to move the table is with x-rollers or like my old dewalt RAS...now that was a precision bearing system.

And yes, I would recommend the platinum mortiser with the caveat: small shop (ie: non continuous duty multi shift use), entry level, sort of craftsman use, not production line use. Shouldn't be hard to resell in the future for at least half its cost w/o tooling. Oh, and Morris Tool has drill bits for dowels in left hand rotation, nobody on this earth seems to have carbide or carbide tipped in left hand rotation, custom made solid carbide left rotation I was quoted $70 roughly from my local grinding shop. Mortising bits are very available in both left and right, HSS or carbide, no real cost difference vrs standard rotation. You just can't use right rotation cutters and bits if you already have them.

[Mark Singer]

I have the Mini Max Techno Elite S and it works terrific! Right rotation a great table , easy to use. Being behind the jointer and planer no moving or setup is required.

http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.p...t=deluxe+table

[rob durfos]

We recently spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out the most bang for the buck, heaviest duty, and most versatile slot mortising machine that would fit our needs for doors, furniture, timber entries, etc.
We ended up adapting a large SCM table to our SCM jointer. 2300 LBS. and 10 HP.
Look at attachment. We did the iron work in house. We have run it for a few months now on a wide variety of projects. It has performed flawlessly.
Attachment pic.

[Gregory Stahl]

Hi all,

I've been studying the pictures of the updated Laguna Mortiser, and to be honest with you, it looks almost like a completely different machine.

For starters, the table looks like it now slides on dovetails as opposed to the metal tubes on the previous version. It looks alot like the Hammer D3.

The small rods that the table stops are set on are now V-grooves, similiar to the D3, but it does not look like the table is nearly as big.

The updated machine weighs at-least 50 pounds or better over the old machine.

And finally, the big deciding factor, what appears to be a switch next to the main power switch to change the direction of the motor.

I cannot guarantee anything I said above as it is based on some pictures of a machine that does not have any Laguna labelling on it, however, it advertised to me as the updated Platinum Series mortiser.

So, for the money, this is looking like an exceptional deal. They made another offer to me on the LBM200 that I may take if I do not like the Platinum Series, so I think I am going to start with this machine.

I'm not certain about the dovetails on the used Frommia I have been looking over, as the table has some slop in it and they would have to be tightened up. Also, the built in clamps are busted and I would have to rely on a shop-built wood table with aftermarket clamps.

Greg

[Gregory Stahl]

Guys, I am studying the pictures more and more, and comparing them to the Hammer D3, and I think the new Laguna Platinum Mortiser is the same machine as the Hammer D3--just mounted to a differnet stand and table.

I'm going to order it up tomorrow as this would be an exceptional deal, and will post pics as soon as possible.

Greg

[David Richardson]

Gregory, I've been kinda shopping for the same - please post an update with your impressions of the Laguna when you can. I'd shied away from it because of the bad comments I'd heard, but perhaps those have been addressed with the changes. Looking forward to your comments, and thanks in advance.

[Peter Quinn]

Well the old one was a Rojek, why shouldn't the new one be a Hammer? Just curious, same price point?