Stairs: Your best tips and suggestions.

[Jim Kaczmark]

I am contemplating building the stairs for my home. New construction, currently in framing stage. Stairs will be an open staircase (no riser, only tread). In addition, stringers will be notched, allowing for a heavy tread... perhaps 2 to 2-1/2" thick. My framer has cut and set hundreds of stringers before, including timber stringers that will be finished & showing as is the case with my stairs. He will be completing that portion, then I will take it from there.

This project got me thinking that this would be an excellent post for Sawmill Creek. What are your top lessons learned from your previous stair projects? Comments welcome on my particular stair design, but lets make this thread applicable to all stair types. Example of topics: Tips in attaching treads to stringers to eliminate future squeaking, installing railing lessons, things you did wrong that you wouldn't make the same mistake again, etc.

Hope this is a well followed link.
Thanks,
Jim Kaczmark

[John Keeton]

Great idea Jim! Since this would be the first response, let me make a suggestion that I rarely see in today's homes. Most of us buy/build a home thinking we will be there a long while. That said, in our home the risers on both of our staircases are less than 7". That takes extra "run" length and must be a part of the design phase of the floor plan.

As we get a little older, there is a huge difference in the comfort of climbing a set of stairs with the typical "code" riser, and one that is say 6 7/8". Doesn't sound like much but it is.

This is probably not what you anticipated in the responses, but compared to "the look", you will get more enjoyment from this element as the years get more "silver", and then "golden."

It will be interesting to watch this thread. I'm sure there will be some great contributions!

[Rob Russell]

To echo a bit of what John said, a lower rise is nice. My great grandfather built a house back in the 1920's. The staircase was a much gentler rise than is typical now (takes more run length, obviously). That means when a daughter is coming down the stairs in her prom dress, she can "glide" down, rather than step down.

I'd be careful about how thick you make the treads. If you make them too thick - especially on an open staircase - I'd worry about them looking "chunky".

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Jim, I would make the stairs a few inches wider than normal so that I wouldn't have to remove the handrail when moving furniture.

Also, if it was for a basement, and I was going to use it for a shop, I'd reinforce the stairs so that they would support an 800 pound machine.

(Unlike my basement stairs where I had to put in temporary vertical supports).

Regards, Rod.

[Steve Schoene]

The stair ideas you have gotten so far are good, but, if you are in the framing stage the rise and run are likely fixed within a few inches, and so is the width.

But you still have lots of things you can control. Building codes will certainly be a restriction on what you can do. For example in some codes, open risers must meet the rule that the opening would not exceed 4" or pass a 4" sphere. There are other rules--for example the rounding of the bullnose on the front of a stair may not have a radius larger than 9/16 ". Handrails have a miriad of rules.

The specific rules for where you live depend mostly on what building code has been adopted in your area, if there are state or local modifications, but also on how local building officials interpret the code.

This url leads to some useful info on interpreting the IRC codes which are in wide use. http://www.arcways.com/codes.asp I would give it several hours of attention before getting your mind too locked into a particular design.

[harry strasil]

FWIW - As a blacksmith/fabricator/repair person, I have replaced many high traffic stair treads and build numerous new stairs.

The usual rule of thumb is 2 times the rise + the run = 24 inches.

This was closely adhered to in many old houses and much new construction. But, there is usually a short or long rise somewhere in the construction, this can be a real hazard.

My rule was divide the height by 7 to see if a short or long riser is the outcome and then divide the height by the number of steps to maintain an even spacing on the rises.

I had one architect who disagreed with my method. so as there were two sets of stairs going to a common landing, I tacked one set in my way and one set in his way, then blindfolded him and asked him to go up each one to the top and then come back down. Good thing I was there when he came the ones his way to catch him when he stumbled on the long rise. He agreed my way was better.

Another old rule of thumb that holds true today, is if you have an imperfect step or other material that you have to use. Place it above or below normal eye level and it will not stand out.

[Dave Norris]

I'd also make sure the framer/carpenter knows you plan to use a thick tread, and that is accounted for in his calculations. Otherwise you will end up with a high first step and a short top step. I think like someone else already said, if you're in the framing stage, you may have to be careful what you can add in at this point.

Other tip is to make sure the stringers are exactly aligned with each other. Use lots of shims to make each tread level and solid. Otherwise squeaks will pop up as the treads rock and flex when you step on them. I'm also a big fan of glue and screws in stairs. The more solid it is, the less squeaks you will have.

[Matt Ocel]

Don't forget backing for the items below

1) Rosettes
2) Code rail brackets
3) Skirtboards
4) 1/2 newels
5) NEWEL POSTS

[Jim Kaczmark]

Please see attachments for two views of a timber stairs that I'm considering... planning on using douglas fir stringers with similar treads. Referring to the above "glue & screw" comment. I'd be concerned that using a construction glue would result with some glue pushout no matter how careful one would try to be. Any comments?

[John Keeton]

I would lean toward lag bolts, with wood plugs - maybe contrasting wood? The bolt closest to the rise would be fixed, but the other one or two (preferable to prevent cupping) should have some slop in the hole to permit movement in the width of the tread. You could do the holes in a larger diameter - or maybe even a square or rectangular plug, but for the actual bolt hole it could be elongated since it wouldn't show. I wouldn't do the glue in this situation.

Is this in a timberframe home? Just curious.

[Dustin Thompson]

Don't be skeert of the construction adhesive! It cleans up with mineral spirits and a little elbow grease.

Be sure to keep good lines of communication with both your builder/gc and code officials. Having to tear out a roughed set of stairs and possibly seriously rehash other framing elements is not fun.

Keep us informed, and don't forget the pictures.

Dustin

[Richard Wolf]

Interesting stairs, will make a nice statement in your home. With heavy material comes heavy hardware. As stated, lag bolts will work well. My quick tip, is to purchase some good plug cutters. Any lag heads, most likely 1" plugs, and screw holes, 1/2" or 3/8" plugs, can be covered. Making your own plugs allows you to carefully select matching grain. A nasty looking plug can be a real distraction.
Good luck, if I can help you with any specific question, just ask.

Richard

[Jim Kaczmark]

Thought I would provide some followup to this thread. Framers are almost off the building site, and one of the last things they did were cut the stringers for the timber staircase.

I've included two attachments. One shows a Google Sketchup picture of the intended design... a few things will change. We will have a bottom rail to the railings on the landings instead of the baulisters extending directly from the top rail to the floor. Thought was to duplicate what was going on between the top railings and the treads, but my spouse and I both will like it better the other way.

The second picture shows the progress / rough-in of the staircase. All timber is radio frequency kiln dried douglas fir. Landing sides were made from 4" x 16" timber. Stringers were cut from 6" x 12" timber. Newel posts are 6" x 6" timbers. Simple 2x framing material was temporarily nailed down to the stringers for the duration of the construction process. One of the last things I'll do during the home construction is to install the treads with the finished product, then install the railing up the stairs, and along the loft.

Newel posts will be either screwed to the wall from the back side... (notice the blocking for the left "downstairs" newel post), or notched, set through the floor, then bolted to the floor joists below. All posts should be solid as a rock. Loft railing posts will be bolted to the rim board.

Your ideas of how to attach the treads will probably be followed... lag bolts & cover them with plugs. I'm thinking of making the treads from reclaimed red birch from Timeless Timber... timber salvaged from the bottom of Lake Superior. If so, a contrasting douglas fir plug might provide a nice "tie-in" to the stringers supporting the treads. A softer wood for the plug might make sanding easier to level the plug with the surface of the tread.

I also followed your suggestinos as to the rise & run of the treads. My designer had a rise / run dimension as described above in the 25" range. My wife is 5'4", so I adjusted the rise / run to be much more agreeable to her. Luckily the basement ceiling height is 9' plus. Gave us the extra room to do this and still have head room as the stairs went down the basement. Toughest parts in the design were to have a rise / run for the stairs going up to the 2nd floor versus the basement work out so the front edge of their respective landings would match... an element needed since the douglas fir 6" posts need to line up from the top landing to the bottom landing. I also bumped out the upper landing two inches on one side so the treads would line up on the upper half & bottom half of the stairs going up to the 2nd floor. Google Sketchup was a great tool to solve all these problems.

My stair thoughs are now going to othe questions:

1) I will join and surface the stair tread material myself. so it will be perfectly square & flat. However, I'm suspecting minor mis-alignment of the tops of the stringers at each step. My contractor did an excellent job, but there will still probably be some "correcting" to do. May end up setting each tread, scribing a line underneath it, then routing out 1/16" off of the bottom where it sits on the stringer... this could give the illusion that the treads meet perfectly on the stringers.

2) Finishing the treads... don't want it too glossy as to be so slippery when using them. Any finishing thoughts to prevent this?

3) Solid timber treads, or joined as shown on Timeless Timber's page (top picture titled "Native Bay Restaurant -- Birch Edge Grain Tabletop"?:
http://www.timelesstimber.com/showro...+Installations
Expense of lumber may come into play here... as will the intended final look of the product. Timber treads will be 2" thick.

4) Railing balusters: Contemplating making them myself... will be simple 1" square stock... but the similar square stock available from my building supply company would be a big time saver. Matching wood qualities will be the issue.


Thank you for your inputs... as you can see, they have been very helpful.
Jim

[Eric Larsen]

Those are (essentially) the stairs that I'm currently doing. How long has it been? Two months? I'm more than half done.

My problem is I'm using wood I simply cannot replace. I have to get each cut right, first time. No second chances. I've got a zero-percent margin for error, because I have EXACTLY enough wood and iron balusters to get the job done.

My advice?

Take the amount of time you think it'll take and triple it. Take the estimated cost and double it. I'm not trying to be snotty. Stairs are just amazingly complicated the first time.

[Richard Wolf]

Couple of thoughts; 1" square balusters will look very light on your staircase, I would suggest a minimum of 1 1/4" square and 1 1/2" would be even better.
Not sure what your run per tread is, but, two balusters per tread will look better spaced than three, as in your sketch up, you should keep the same spacing on your balconies.

Richard