Help! Beginner Breaking Screws

[Jeff DeTray]

I'm a beginning woodworker, and I am breaking wood screws!

After building several projects from pine, I'm now using hardwood (red oak) for the first time to build a simple desk. I'm using Dewalt countersinks (the kind with tapered bits) to drill pilot holes for the wood screws. The screws are zinc-plated #6 and #8 flathead wood screws, 1-1/2" long, purchased from either Lowes or a local hardware store. I adjusted the countersinks so that the depth of the hole beyond the countersink cutters is slightly greater than the length of the screw.

However, when I drive the screws, the head and unthreaded portion of the screws are snapping off just above the threads before the screw is fully seated. This leaves the threaded portion of the screw deep in the hole.

I started with #6 screws and broke the first 5 in a row. So I then switched to #8 and broke 2 out of the first 3. I've used both Craftsman and Black & Decker drill/drivers to drive the screws. I then drove one #8 screw by hand; it did not break, but I was not able to drive it to the full depth. Since I'm also using glue, the structure will probably be sound, but I feel like a dope because I can't drive a screw without breaking it.

In a related problem, I am getting burning of the oak when drilling the holes with the Dewalt countersinks.

So what am I doing wrong?
Poor technique?
Poor-quality screws?
Poor choice of countersinks?
All of the above?

I never had this problem when working with pine!

Thanks,
Jeff

Below you can see broken #6 and #8 screws, the one #8 screw I drove to full depth without breaking, one of the holes that happens to have a broken screw deep inside, and a Dewalt countersink that shows discoloration from the heat that was generated when drilling the holes. You'll also notice that the edges of the holes aren't very clean; is that typical of the results one can expect from these countersink bits?

[Johnny Kleso]

Poor Quality Screws and your hole can be drilled deeper and try finishing it to depth by hand..

Pratice in scrap till you get a system that works.. Try using a straight drill bit to clear out the screw body size after the counter sink bit.. Keep trying in scrap till your sure you will not break screws..

Even if you have the best screws this still applys..

McFeely's makes square drives and I hate using Borg screws or even phillips screws these days..

I see your screws are from the Borg, you get that you pay for with screws and the Borg's are the worst for woodworking..

[David Freed]

I agree. Some screws can be such low quality, they will break if you look at them too hard. If you aren't drilling your pilot hole deep enough, hardwood will put good quality screws to the test.

[Anthony Whitesell]

I had the same problem (red oak, #6 1 1/2" screws, in a #6 tapered countersinked hole) and the store where I purchased them didn't matter. I upsized the hole to a #7 and/or used the #8 and drilled it twice and had success in both cases.

I don't think the #6 screw is strong enough to be screwed into red oak 1 1/2" deep.

[Tom Henderson2]

Are you lubricating the screw before installing it?

Beeswax, paraffin, etc all work. Or you can buy purpose-made stuff.

[Mort Stevens]

The Dewalt countersinks don't drill a large enough pilot hole for hardwoods. You could try using the #8 countersink for #6 screws or the #10 for #8 screws.

[glenn bradley]

All good advise here. Foremost, quality fasteners. There are many suppliers but I have never broken a McFeely's screw or a Kreg for that matter. Screws from the BORG? Oh, yeah, I can break them with a hand powered phillips driver; that's a weak screw. One snapped screw and the resulting impact to my project cured me of thinking that quality fasteners are expensive; they're not.

[Brian Kent]

Does anyone know which woodworking magazine had a review of screws this spring? I do remember that there were 4 types, which they challenged by screwing into oak without a pilot. The Home Depot screws broke - either 18 or 20 of the 20. None of he spax screws broke (McFeeley's or Highland woodworking).

Anyone remember the article?

[Peter Quinn]

I don't know about the article, but in my not so scientific way I tested the SPAX screws when I first bought them P Quinn style, with some hard maple and my cordless impact driver. I ran THE SAME SCREW in and out repeatedly (new hole each time) about 20 times, no wax, no pilot, no problem. The screw was VERY hot but it didn't give up.

I have stopped using screws from big box retailers and generic hardware stores and started using annealed assembly screws from wood working stores. Much more reliable. I don't remember generic screws breaking as a kid like they seem to now. Have they gone crappy or is it my imagination?

[Joe Jensen]

I've never broken a screw from McFeelys even with my impact driver. Broke the screws from Home Depot all time until I stopped buying them. gave several thousand to the landscaper dudes.

[David DeCristoforo]

"Have they gone crappy or is it my imagination?"

It's not you. The "quality" of typical hardware store stuff has gotten so bad that I don't even bother with them anymore.

[Mark Smith, too]

The BORG screws are contributing to your problem. Using the method you are using, a #6 driven 1-1/2 inches deep into hardwood requires a lot of torque as you discovered by hand driving. To do this you'll need to find better screws that those at the BORG.

Second, pilot holes in hardwood need to be larger than for the same screw in softwood. The advice to set your bit to drive drive deeper or to up-size one bit size will take care of that. I don't know how DeWalt sizes their taper drills. They may be sized for softwood.

I've never used a DeWalt taper drill but with burning and discoloration you may have picked up an improperly sharpened bit. It could also be you are using too slow a drive speed, or are not clearing the chips often enough. I'd suspect the bit, however.

Assuming you are attaching 3/4 stock to something else, you can help yourself by drilling a full width shank hole through the board you are attaching. You don't want threads grabbing the top board anyway, and then you will only be driving 3/4 inch into hardwood. Your screws might take that since you've eliminated friction in the first 3/4 inch.

The tear out may also be due to a not sharp enough countersink.

[Joe Scharle]

All good advise here. Foremost, quality fasteners. There are many suppliers but I have never broken a McFeely's screw or a Kreg for that matter. Screws from the BORG? Oh, yeah, I can break them with a hand powered phillips driver; that's a weak screw. One snapped screw and the resulting impact to my project cured me of thinking that quality fasteners are expensive; they're not.

I've driven hundreds of Kregs into pocket hole (no pilot hole in the receiver) and never broke one. Walnut, maple, both oaks. McFeely; same experience. Last weekend, I snapped a BORG 12 X 3 in pine. The BORG screws are getting softer.

[Lewis DeJoseph]

Sure I remember it, it's the summer issue of Woodworking Magazine. If I remember right they figured the cost of the McFeely's to be the better buy.

Does anyone know which woodworking magazine had a review of screws this spring? I do remember that there were 4 types, which they challenged by screwing into oak without a pilot. The Home Depot screws broke - either 18 or 20 of the 20. None of he spax screws broke (McFeeley's or Highland woodworking).

Anyone remember the article?

[Terry Browne]

All good tips but you should also lube the screw with bee's wax or other good lube before driving screws into hardwood. Bar soap works in a pinch but it can cause the screws to rust and make them difficult to remove if ever needed. A little lubricant will probably solve the problem with the screws you have.