A Waterstone Story

[Mike Henderson]

Months ago I dropped my Shapton 1000 grit stone on concrete and it broke in half. I dried it and glued it back together with epoxy and it worked fine.

Today, however, while I was using it, it came apart on the glue line.

I'm cheap and didn't want to buy a new stone so I started thinking about what I could glue the Shapton to to give it enough strength that I could still use it. One thought was a piece of glass, but I would prefer to use something I already have.

I have a Norton 1000 stone that I've used a good deal - it's getting thin - so I decided to glue the two stones together. This would give me a 1000 surface on each side, just two technologies.

So that's what I did. You can see the result in the picture. I flattened each side and it works fine. But I'll give up and buy a new Shapton if this one breaks on me.

Mike

[Derek Cohen]

Good one Mike!

Just for reference, I have epoxied all my Professional series Shaptons (1000/5000/8000/12000) to 5mm glass. Having compared two 8000 side-by-side for about a year, one with glass and the other standard, I find the glass holds the stone flatter between flattenings.

My procedure is to allow the stones to dry "as is" after they are used for the day (i.e. no flattening) because they always need flattening anyway at the start of the sharpening session. The glassed version is flatter in the morning when time comes to flatten them (if all this makes sense).

The other reason for the glass was that I was concerned that the stones might become fragile as they became thinner - not that they are thin at this time.



Regards from Perth

Derek

[Eddie Darby]

Quick run to the patent office!

Good tips!!! Thanks!

[Jay Jolliffe]

Derek....Can you see or feel any difference when you sharpen to the 12000 stone instead of stopping at the 8000. The highest I have is 8000 & it makes my chisels mirror smooth & sharp enough to shave. So going to the 12000 make that much difference ?

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Jay

Yes, the 12000 (some call it a 15000) is noticably smoother (=sharper). I like this stone. I am now going to see if I can go to it directly from the 5000 and by-pass the 8000.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Henderson]

Thanks for the info, Derek. How did you get the glass for the stones? Did you go to a commercial place and have them cut it to size for you? Or did you do something yourself?

And how thick is the glass you chose?

Thanks, Mike

[Mike Keers]

Glad to see another frugal sawdust sucker who at least makes the effort to make do--some guys would just toss a broken stone and buy another. I dropped a very fine 'found' stone of unknown grit or material and it broke in half too. Mine is more like a chunk of marble, some kind of polished black stone with veins of lighter color, an Arkansas or other natural type? It's not a manufactured water stone anyway. I thought of epoxy but tried Gorilla Glue, since the stone was damp from perpetual soaking. It worked fine, and after flattening it's still used for the final polish. I didn't think of gluing it to another stone or glass...interesting idea!

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Mike

The 8000 in the picture was the one I did first. The glass is 3mm thick. I recently added glass to all the other stones. These are 5mm thick.

The was cut from scraps at my local glass merchant. He charged me $10 for 4 pieces that measured 70mm x 210mm (from memory). I thought this very reasonable, especially since he interrupted his work to cut the pieces for me.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tony Franics]

You guys do realise Shapton actually make stones with float glass backing eh? They are cheaper too!

www.shaptonstones.com

[Mike Henderson]

You guys do realise Shapton actually make stones with float glass backing eh? They are cheaper too!

www.shaptonstones.com

Yes, but they are newer than when I bought my Shapton stones. What I'm trying to do is save the stone I have.

A friend of mine bought the whole set of glass backed Shaptons. His comment was that the stones were reasonably priced but they get you on the diamond flattening plate. I've not gone and looked at the prices of any of the new Shapton stuff so I can't vouch for his comment.

Mike

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Tony

There are two series of Shaptons sold, the Glass and the Professional versions. Both are current models. Slightly different formulations. Some prefer one over the other.

There is speculation that the Glass versins were introduced to reduce the price and also because of movement (as I reported - I am not sure if this is a general issue, and I have not thought to check it out whether present in my other types of waterstones) in the Pro versions.

The Pros are twice as thick for just a little more money. Better value for money? Anyway, these are the ones that Mike and I have modified.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Henderson]

I don't have any preference, but I will comment that you may get as much life out of the glass Shaptons as out of the non-glass. The reason is that you can't use the non-glass to nothing. Long before it gets really thin it'll probably break and be discarded. Unless you do something like Derek did.

And as Derek has commented, you may get a flatter stone with the glass (I have no experience on this).

But that Shapton flattening plate is a killer. I checked at LN and it's $289. If you must use that, and can't use a DMT plate, it'll make those glass stones pretty expensive.

Mike

[Jim Koepke]

Glad to see another frugal sawdust sucker who at least makes the effort to make do--some guys would just toss a broken stone and buy another.

Are you kidding?

These are great pieces for making slip stones and pocket stones.

Can't make lemon aide without lemons.

jim

[Derek Cohen]

Mike

I must say that the Shapton diamond plate is a killer in performance as well.

A few weeks ago I was demonstrating handtools for LN at the Perth Wood Show (this was like letting me loose in Aladin's Cave!). Of course they had the Shapton diamond plate there as well. I compared it against the 10" DMT Extra Coarse (Duostone) I was using. It blew the DMT away in terms of speed to flatten and re-flatten a stone (I was using both LN's glass stones and my pro stones).

If you think that the Shapton Diamond Lapping Stone is expensive, take a look at theprice of their Diamond Reference Lapping Stone, which is two-sided (one for blade backs and the other for stones - ala the Extra Coarse/Coarse DMT). The certfied flatter flattness of the Shapton is what is said to increase the speed of sharpeneing - better, quicker referencing of a face or area.

Harrison Stanley has a video on the website about this.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tony Franics]

Thanks guys,

I suppose you are both correct that it could be better value for money paying a little extra for the pro series and then laminating the backs with glass to extend their life (just like the glasstone series). However, while many folks use the pro series for A2 tool steel blades and chisels, Lie-Nielsen claim the Glasstones were specially formulated for use with their A2.

Perception for money is an interesting thing. Most people would consider the following a basic kit of sharpening gear; a 1000 grit, 4000 grit and also 8000 grit waterstones. (Many also like a finer stone). You also need a diamond stone to flatten the waterstones and another diamond plate to flatten the backs of blades or remove nicks from the cutting edge.

So for the Glasstone series in 1K, 4K and 8K, the diamond on glass lapping plate, a stone holder (because these are so thin!), and also a DMT C/XC as a roughing tool - thats a total of $667.80.

For the Pro series stones in 1K, 5K and 8K, plus the diamond reference lapping plate (which is a diamond waterstone lapping plate, stone holder and tool roughing diamond plate combined) the total would be $725.97 for what is essentially twice the stone life if properly maintained.

So? Which is better value?

Best,

Tony