Festool for Beginning Woodworking?

[Rafael Carias]

I'm hoping to square up my stock at my local college for a while so I can get by w/o a jointer/planer.



-Alan

Alan, you can get S3S (surfaced 3 sides) wood at Austin hardwoods in Santa Ana at very competitive prices if need be.

[Jesse Cloud]

Great thread!

Here's a couple more cents worth...

Definitely use your school shop to square up your stock. Jointers and planers are big, heavy, expensive, and take a lot of expert maintenance.

I think a band saw is a good investment. Even if you go the Festool route, you will probably need a bandsaw. The big ones will, however, require 220V - if your shop isn't wired, plan for some extra expense here - lots of discussions on this on this forum.

I didn't mean to imply that Festool is the only quality tool out there. I have some DeWalt, some Delta, some Bosch, etc. that are solid quality tools. On the other hand, I have sold off most of my DeWally, Delta, and Bosch because they just gathered dust after I started using Festool.

One important question to ask yourself is why you are doing this. If your goal is to produce woodwork that you can sell at a low price, then high end tools may not make sense. Personally, I do woodworking because I enjoy it and that enjoyment is heightened by tools that delight me every time I use them.

Another factor is how much time you have. Even though I'm retired, I generally have to limit shop time to short spurts of an hour or two at a time. The fact that I can make a few dozen mortise and tenon joints in a couple of hours with no cleanup makes Festool worth the $$ for me.

There's no one answer that fits all sizes. But having said that, I suggest you pick a direction and stay with it - you will save $$ and build skills more quickly that way. Personally, I started with the cheap route and all those upgrades cost me a lot more than I would have spent if I had started with quality.

Keep in touch!

[Alan Wong]

Alan, you can get S3S (surfaced 3 sides) wood at Austin hardwoods in Santa Ana at very competitive prices if need be.

I have been meaning to check this place out. It opens during regular work hours so hard for me to get out there. Gotta find some time on a saturday to check it out. I am leaning toward purchasing S3S for now, investing in a planer/jointer is a little too overwhelming at the moment. Thanks for the advice!

-Alan

[Alan Wong]

Great thread!

Here's a couple more cents worth...

Definitely use your school shop to square up your stock. Jointers and planers are big, heavy, expensive, and take a lot of expert maintenance.

I think a band saw is a good investment. Even if you go the Festool route, you will probably need a bandsaw. The big ones will, however, require 220V - if your shop isn't wired, plan for some extra expense here - lots of discussions on this on this forum.

I didn't mean to imply that Festool is the only quality tool out there. I have some DeWalt, some Delta, some Bosch, etc. that are solid quality tools. On the other hand, I have sold off most of my DeWally, Delta, and Bosch because they just gathered dust after I started using Festool.

One important question to ask yourself is why you are doing this. If your goal is to produce woodwork that you can sell at a low price, then high end tools may not make sense. Personally, I do woodworking because I enjoy it and that enjoyment is heightened by tools that delight me every time I use them.

Another factor is how much time you have. Even though I'm retired, I generally have to limit shop time to short spurts of an hour or two at a time. The fact that I can make a few dozen mortise and tenon joints in a couple of hours with no cleanup makes Festool worth the $$ for me.

There's no one answer that fits all sizes. But having said that, I suggest you pick a direction and stay with it - you will save $$ and build skills more quickly that way. Personally, I started with the cheap route and all those upgrades cost me a lot more than I would have spent if I had started with quality.

Keep in touch!

Thanks for all the advice! I am a 23yr old yuppie, design engineer.
Everything I plan to make is mainly for personal use and/or family/friends. I want to make some fine furniture. I've always enjoyed building something of my own, its very fullfilling, and building a piece of fine furniture would be great and practical, instead of spending a fortune on store bought furniture. I really like the arts/crafts style furniture and semi-inspired me to pick-up woodworking. I hope to design some original pieces of my own in the future after I've refined my skills.
So time wise, roughly ~5-15 hours a week. Maybe i'll get swept up in a project and spend 20+ hours, but we'll see.

Direction-wise I think i've determined to go straight for "quality" tools, just not sure the festool direction or TS/BS direction.

I appreciate everyones responses!

[Tim Sproul]

.......I really like the arts/crafts style furniture ............

Direction-wise I think i've determined to go straight for "quality" tools, just not sure the festool direction or TS/BS direction.

I have Festool, I've had the EZ (it is a good system, just didn't suit my work style, my peculiarities, etc.) and I have a TS, BS, etc.

For arts & crafts oriented furniture, I'd recommend you consider the table saw route. Why? That style of furniture has lots of more narrow sticks that combine to give the furniture substance. This means you need to do a lot of repetitive rips and this is what a table saw really excells at above any other tooling (well, typically available for the hobbyist). The Festool system is great but it is a PITA to set up the guide rail system to do accurately repeatable rips over and over.

So....if you are going to do a lot of arts & crafts style stuff....get a table saw over the Festool system or EZ system. Best is to get both, but......$$$.

[Dino Makropoulos]

I have Festool, I've had the EZ (it is a good system, just didn't suit my work style, my peculiarities, etc.) and I have a TS, BS, etc.

For arts & crafts oriented furniture, I'd recommend you consider the table saw route. Why? That style of furniture has lots of more narrow sticks that combine to give the furniture substance. This means you need to do a lot of repetitive rips and this is what a table saw really excells at above any other tooling (well, typically available for the hobbyist). The Festool system is great but it is a PITA to set up the guide rail system to do accurately repeatable rips over and over.
So....if you are going to do a lot of arts & crafts style stuff....get a table saw over the Festool system or EZ system. Best is to get both, but......$$$.

Tim,
Have you seen the EZ-PBB? (power bench/bridge)

If Festool is not up to the task, ( for narrow, repeat cuts )
why include the ez system to this problem?

Narrow and repeat cuts are extreme dificult and dangerous on the tablesaw.
Pita with any guide system...but easy, safe and accurate with the EZ System.

Here is a video with the proof.
As you can see the ez PBB comes with a ripping fence, squaring fence and the entire bridge works like a huge clamp.
Even without the PBB the ez system is capable of narrow and repeat cuts.

I post this to provide correct information about the ez system.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXV2XJTwn9Y

Thanks.

YCF Dino
Eurekazone

[Dan Clark]

Thanks for all the advice! I am a 23yr old yuppie, design engineer.
Everything I plan to make is mainly for personal use and/or family/friends. I want to make some fine furniture. I've always enjoyed building something of my own, its very fullfilling, and building a piece of fine furniture would be great and practical, instead of spending a fortune on store bought furniture. I really like the arts/crafts style furniture and semi-inspired me to pick-up woodworking. I hope to design some original pieces of my own in the future after I've refined my skills.
So time wise, roughly ~5-15 hours a week. Maybe i'll get swept up in a project and spend 20+ hours, but we'll see.

Direction-wise I think i've determined to go straight for "quality" tools, just not sure the festool direction or TS/BS direction.

I appreciate everyones responses!

Tony,

I think the key issue is table saw plus other tools versus vs Festool plus other tools. The subtlety here is that many Festool owners also have other power tools. They aren't mutually exclusive. For example, I have a Dewalt planer and a Bosch miter saw. I'd like to get a band saw, a bench drill press, and maybe a small contractor-style table saw.

I would argue that the Festool approach is more flexible. You can mix and match components as you need them. And you can move your "shop" to the location of the work. And you can store your "shop" in a small amount of space. However...

You indicate that you'd like to build furniture. So maybe a table saw is the best option. Maybe Festool plus a small table saw is the best option. Not an easy decision.

Here's a link to Jerry Work's website: http://www.jerrywork.com/. Jerry is a Festool user and is a professional woodworker who makes LOVELY furniture. Take a look at his "Portfolio" and "Studio Tour".

Regards,

Dan.

[Burt Waddell]

Tony,

I think the key issue is table saw plus other tools versus vs Festool plus other tools. The subtlety here is that many Festool owners also have other power tools. They aren't mutually exclusive. For example, I have a Dewalt planer and a Bosch miter saw. I'd like to get a band saw, a bench drill press, and maybe a small contractor-style table saw.

I would argue that the Festool approach is more flexible. You can mix and match components as you need them. And you can move your "shop" to the location of the work. And you can store your "shop" in a small amount of space. However...

You indicate that you'd like to build furniture. So maybe a table saw is the best option. Maybe Festool plus a small table saw is the best option. Not an easy decision.

Here's a link to Jerry Work's website: http://www.jerrywork.com/. Jerry is a Festool user and is a professional woodworker who makes LOVELY furniture. Take a look at his "Portfolio" and "Studio Tour".

Regards,

Dan.

Dan,

I've got to agree with you that if he goes with the Festool he will also need to have the Table saw. Festool has no provisions for narrow or repeat cuts and the rail is to weak to function in a bridge configuration.

Also he needs to remember if that he goes with the Festool, he must buy the system. In addition to the saw and rail, he will need all of the Festool blades to complete the system and to be able to cut a variety of materials. Also he needs to plan in advance or have a machinist friend because the local big boxes and hardware stores don't have blades to fit the Festool.

Oh, Yes. Thanks for the new EZ stuff. That adapter is great!!

Burt

[Steve Sawyer]

Let me chime in with others in that you can't go wrong by getting high-quality tools for all the reasons mentioned. Most of us who have tried to save a few bucks by spending $70 on a cheap jigsaw have eventually spent the $150 (or more) for a good one.

What I haven't seen mentioned is that better tools retain their value, should you ever want to upgrade even further, or decide that something that you purchased isn't being used as as much as you'd anticipated.

One alternative that I haven't seen suggested is to start out as a Galoot/Neanderthal. Our woodworking club has several members who use almost nothing powered save maybe a band saw. They have a lot of fun, are some of our most knowledgeable members, and they produce some beautiful work. The money you would spend on high-quality power tools will go a long way toward equipping yourself with good Veritas or Lie-Nielsen planes, Ashley and Ray Iles chisels, vintage Disston panel saws, Adria tenon and carcase saws etc. This is all easily transportable, also retains it's value, and the skills you learn will ALWAYS be of great value even if you become a "hybrid" woodworker who uses both powered and hand tools.

You can start by looking at what tools you need to construct a good workbench, build that, then acquire additional hand tools as needed for future projects. When you become more settled and can invest in the table saw, planer, jointer and power hand tools, you'll be that much more capable.

[Bob Marino]

Dan,

I've got to agree with you that if he goes with the Festool he will also need to have the Table saw. Festool has no provisions for narrow or repeat cuts and the rail is to weak to function in a bridge configuration.

Also he needs to remember if that he goes with the Festool, he must buy the system. In addition to the saw and rail, he will need all of the Festool blades to complete the system and to be able to cut a variety of materials. Also he needs to plan in advance or have a machinist friend because the local big boxes and hardware stores don't have blades to fit the Festool.

Oh, Yes. Thanks for the new EZ stuff. That adapter is great!!

Burt

Burt,

You are simply mistaken regarding regarding cutting narrow stock or repeat cuts with the Festool system. This is not to take anything away from the EZ Repeaters or Bridge, which excel at this type of operation. If you are refering to an out of the box part Repeater type part, that is correct, but there have been numerous, simple, very inexpensive ways to do so - many have been posted by John Lucas, Jerry Work and others. The MFT does have such a part, called a Longitudinal Stop.
Regarding having to get different Festool blades for different materials, you could not be more wrong. The standard supplied fine tooth blade will cut wood, aluminum, solid surface, plastic, MDF, etc. It's just that Festool offers these specialized blades primarily as a result of supplying/dealing with different professional markets - solid surface fabricators, flooring, cabinet making, furniture building. Also, the variable speed of the TS saws, helps to ensure the right speed for cuting different materials to attain the best cuts.
I understand your preference and support of the EZ system; that's fine, that's what choices are all about, but you do everyone and IMHO yourself, a disservice by posting misinformation regarding the Festool tools and accessories.

Bob

[Burt Waddell]

Burt,

You are simply mistaken regarding regarding cutting narrow stock or repeat cuts with the Festool system. This is not to take anything away from the EZ Repeaters or Bridge, which excel at this type of operation. If you are refering to an out of the box part Repeater type part, that is correct, but there have been numerous, simple, very inexpensive ways to do so - many have been posted by John Lucas, Jerry Work and others. The MFT does have such a part, called a Longitudinal Stop.
Regarding having to get different Festool blades for different materials, you could not be more wrong. The standard supplied fine tooth blade will cut wood, aluminum, solid surface, plastic, MDF, etc. It's just that Festool offers these specialized blades primarily as a result of supplying/dealing with different professional markets - solid surface fabricators, flooring, cabinet making, furniture building. Also, the variable speed of the TS saws, helps to ensure the right speed for cuting different materials to attain the best cuts.
I understand your preference and support of the EZ system; that's fine, that's what choices are all about, but you do everyone and IMHO yourself, a disservice by posting misinformation regarding the Festool tools and accessories.

Bob

Bob,

We both know where we each stand on this subject. I've tried Festool and prefer the EZ equipment. I don't know if you have tried EZ but you are certainly a Festool supporter.

I also realize that your opinions are influenced by the simple fact that you make a considerable income from selling Festool products.

My involvement with EZ is as a satisfied customer.

Could you be specific about mis-information that you say I have posted? I'm not aware of any.

Burt

[Dan Clark]

Dan,

I've got to agree with you that if he goes with the Festool he will also need to have the Table saw. Festool has no provisions for narrow or repeat cuts and the rail is to weak to function in a bridge configuration.

Also he needs to remember if that he goes with the Festool, he must buy the system. In addition to the saw and rail, he will need all of the Festool blades to complete the system and to be able to cut a variety of materials. Also he needs to plan in advance or have a machinist friend because the local big boxes and hardware stores don't have blades to fit the Festool.

Oh, Yes. Thanks for the new EZ stuff. That adapter is great!!

Burt

Burt,

As Bob mentioned, you do a disservice to yourself and Sawmill Creek members by posting disinformation like this.

I took me a couple of minutes to create a quick and dirty repeat cuts jig. Others have created some very nice jigs to make repeat cuts. It's just not an issue.

Regarding "...he will also need to have the Table saw.", this is complete rubbish. I've been thinking about a small table saw table saw for almost two years. Every time I thought I needed one, I figured out a way to work around the issue. EVERY TIME! Right now a table saw is about fifth or sixth down my list of major purchases. Every user is different and their needs are different. Some people need a table saw; some don't.

Regarding blades, if you want to buy blades from the big box stores, go for it. You can get a bunch of cheap ones and a few decent ones. OTOH...

You can get quality Festool blades from multiple online and local retailers, including two of the largest nationwide chains - Woodcraft and Rockler, and a whole host of other local retailers. In addition, the premiere maker of fine blades - Forrest - makes blades for the TS55 and TS75: http://www.forrestsawbladesonline.co...dworker_I.html and for the Festool Kapex: http://www.forrestsawbladesonline.co...120_10_Sl.html.

Regarding, "...he must buy the system." This is also complete rubbish. Users buy Festool tools and accessories because they WANT to buy them. Because it's the easiest and fastest way to meet their needs. OTOH...

Many Festool owners find tools from other brands fit their needs better. I have a DW735 planer and Bosch miter saw (not as good as a Kapex, but I already own it). I have several Makita tools which serve me well. It's not difficult to integrate them into your Festool-based system if you want to. Some examples:

• On Brice Burrell's site, I reviewed the Makita 9903 belt sander and showed how you could connect it to a Festool vac (using a Fein hose adapter - part number 921072K13) for dust free belt sanding. I also showed how attach the 9903 to a Festool MFT to make a servicable on-site fixed belt sander. Here's the link to my review: http://www.burrellcustomcarpentry.com/subpage36.html.

• This morning, I hooked up my Fein Multimaster with the dust collection accessory hooked to my Festool vac. Its a great way to remove grout or excess thinset from tile joints with very little dust.

• Many Festool users own a Fein vac and get excellent results. Some do it because they own one already. Some do it because they like Fein better. No problem.

• As combo in-feed and outfeed tables, and as MFT extensions I strongly recommend the Ridgid Flip Top Work Support. $30 at Homers: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...0044004+502400.

Festool owners think outside the box. They choose what meets their needs best. Sometimes Festool. Sometimes not. The Festool integrated system is there. You can add Festool and non-Festool tools to a solution that best meets your needs at the time.

Regards,

Dan.

[Bob Marino]

Bob,

We both know where we each stand on this subject. I've tried Festool and prefer the EZ equipment. I don't know if you have tried EZ but you are certainly a Festool supporter.

I also realize that your opinions are influenced by the simple fact that you make a considerable income from selling Festool products.

My involvement with EZ is as a satisfied customer.

Could you be specific about mis-information that you say I have posted? I'm not aware of any.

Burt

Sure Burt. Basically your last post.

I've got to agree with you that if he goes with the Festool he will also need to have the Table saw. Festool has no provisions for narrow or repeat cuts and the rail is to weak to function in a bridge configuration.

Also he needs to remember if that he goes with the Festool, he must buy the system. In addition to the saw and rail, he will need all of the Festool blades to complete the system and to be able to cut a variety of materials.

1. You sure can cut narrow or repeat cuts.

2. You do not need to buy all the blades to cut various materials.

I breifly elaborated on the above in my last post. What you see as my opinions (being able to cut narrow stock, repeat cuts, not having to buy all the different blades to cut different materials) are simply and plainly facts, not opinions - I and others do so all the time.

I have not tried the EZ system, but had the pleasure of meeting Dino a few times at he shows here in NJ. Since I have never tried the EZ system, you don't see me commenting on which system is better, you know, the different strokes for different folks thing is the way I see it and generally stay out of these posts, but on occasion will challenge incorrect info, such as yours being posted.

Bob

[Ted Miller]

Bob and Dan, Please just add him to "ignore" it's not worth wasting your time by responding.

Lets help Alan by keeping his thread on topic...

[Burt Waddell]

Sure Burt. Basically your last post.


1. You sure can cut narrow or repeat cuts.

2. You do not need to buy all the blades to cut various materials.

I breifly elaborated on the above in my last post. What you see as my opinions (being able to cut narrow stock, repeat cuts, not having to buy all the different blades to cut different materials) are simply and plainly facts, not opinions - I and others do so all the time.

Bob

Bob,

Dino has provided us with a video of the EZ System doing small cuts and showed how it does repeat cuts. Can you provide us a video of the Festool doing the same?

Also could you include a photo of the 48 tooth blade on the TS 55 cutting a 2" piece of hardwood - oak or maple would work fine. I know I often see posts where usage of other festool blades are recommended.

Burt