Festool for Beginning Woodworking?

[Alan Wong]

Hi all,
I've been lurking around doing research trying to find how to get properly started into woodworking w/o breaking the bank, but at the same time get some quality tools that will last. I'm mainly looking to build some nice indoor furniture, possibly arts and crafts style furniture.
Space: Small area of a garage, limited. Also I don't want to invest into anything substantial like a table saw or band saw since I could be moving locations within 1-2 years, moving is a pain.

I have a few basics: rulers, squares, sliding bevel, chisels, tape measure

After reading and researching, a table with a guide set-up and circular saw and a router sounds like it might just be up my alley. They can get lots of the general needs done as well as remain portable and compact. Is this a good way to go, or should I invest in a portable table saw instead?

I don't really have a budget, but I will purchase the tools as I need them depending on what I am building. I'd like to stay under 1-2k.

Option 1: So that leads me to festool guide and circular saw system. Seems like positive reviews about this system, except for the price tag. I am willing to swallow the costs if its going to save me lots of headache and make my projects smoother and more accurate. This would be looking at the new MTF/3 table. Would this be a sufficient workbench? Or would I need another?

Option 2: Buy a study workbench and purchase the tools seperately (as in not festool) like router, circular saw, sander, etc..

I'd love to go straight and buy a nice cabinet saw or band saw but I just dread moving it 1 year possibly down the line.

Also I am taking some beginning woodworking classes at my local college, where I will have limited access to most of the large machines (planer, jointer, ts, bs), for as long as I am still taking classes. Lugging lumber back and forth to class might become a pain.

So any feedback would be appreciated, as I wanted to get started off on the right foot, and use my funds effectively and efficiently. Many Thanks ahead of time

-Alan

[Rick Potter]

Alan,

In my opinion, it would be a mistake to get a portable table saw, as they are limited in what they can do. For less money, I would suggest buying a decent sears contractor saw for about $200 or so, and if you move, sell it or leave it, taking any accessories or jigs you have made with you. Then buy another one when you get there. I have seen some wonderful furniture made with these saws. You have to fiddle a bit with them compared to the better brands, but it's worth it money wise.

As to the Festool equipment, I have no experience, but most magazines or books you may get usually cover table saws and their use rather than the more expensive and exotic Festools. I would think, as a beginner, you might get more for your money with standard tools, then go to the Festools later.

Rick Potter

[Ted Pritchard]

Allan

Festool systems are very nice to use, will last a long time and cost a lot. But it all depends on what you aim to do.
For sheet goods it is readily possible to do a very good job with their saw/guide system and in some respects more conveniently than with a table saw.
For projects using solid wood, life gets much easier if one has a planer and thicknesser or combination planer/thicknesser, and a small bandsaw. With the correct blade, even a 12" B/saw is capable of easily ripping down stock to approximate width and thickness, and they are not hard to move about.
It is not hard to accurately cut most solid timber to an accurate length with a good tenon saw, a home-made cut off box, a sharp handplane and some benchhooks made from scraps. Equally a lot can be done with a small and relatively portable contractor style saw.
If you have a lot of work in mind (and are prepared to forgo traditional M & T joinery) Festool's Domino system is very impressive (quick and accurate but again expensive).
If at some later date you're able to trade the contractor saw for a full size table saw, it's unlikely that you would consign any of the rest to e-bay - it would all remain very useful.
With respect to benches, I would recommend you fabricate your own in a form that breaks down easily for transport.

Ted

[Jason White]

If I had to guess, i'd say 90% of the folks here are "beginning" woodworkers. All I mean by that is that they (myself included) do a lot more talking and reading about woodworking than actually doing it. Also, "woodworking" can mean lots of different things. For me, woodworking (for the moment) is remodeling and renovation projects on my own house. When buying tools, I try to keep in mind that I'll someday use them for making actual furniture and more advanced cabinetry projects.

Having said all that, you absolutely can't go wrong with the Festool TS55 plunge cut saw. Some say it has replaced their tablesaw altogether. I still couldn't live without my tablesaw. I've also replaced nearly all of my sanders with Festool just because they're so much better than what I had. I think you're on the right track spending your money once on good quality tools instead of buying cheap stuff now, which you'll just have to replace later. However, you'll never have the same appreciation as us folks who have used junky tools in the past.

JW

Hi all,
I've been lurking around doing research trying to find how to get properly started into woodworking w/o breaking the bank, but at the same time get some quality tools that will last. I'm mainly looking to build some nice indoor furniture, possibly arts and crafts style furniture.
Space: Small area of a garage, limited. Also I don't want to invest into anything substantial like a table saw or band saw since I could be moving locations within 1-2 years, moving is a pain.

I have a few basics: rulers, squares, sliding bevel, chisels, tape measure

After reading and researching, a table with a guide set-up and circular saw and a router sounds like it might just be up my alley. They can get lots of the general needs done as well as remain portable and compact. Is this a good way to go, or should I invest in a portable table saw instead?

I don't really have a budget, but I will purchase the tools as I need them depending on what I am building. I'd like to stay under 1-2k.

Option 1: So that leads me to festool guide and circular saw system. Seems like positive reviews about this system, except for the price tag. I am willing to swallow the costs if its going to save me lots of headache and make my projects smoother and more accurate. This would be looking at the new MTF/3 table. Would this be a sufficient workbench? Or would I need another?

Option 2: Buy a study workbench and purchase the tools seperately (as in not festool) like router, circular saw, sander, etc..

I'd love to go straight and buy a nice cabinet saw or band saw but I just dread moving it 1 year possibly down the line.

Also I am taking some beginning woodworking classes at my local college, where I will have limited access to most of the large machines (planer, jointer, ts, bs), for as long as I am still taking classes. Lugging lumber back and forth to class might become a pain.

So any feedback would be appreciated, as I wanted to get started off on the right foot, and use my funds effectively and efficiently. Many Thanks ahead of time

-Alan

[John Lucas]

Alan,
I had the traditional shop and then decided to set up the "All Festool Shop" and sold my very trusty table saw...I needed the floor space. I am just now completing the build of a 12 drawer sideboard. There are 7 pages so far showing the step-by=step of this.

This is friend Sal with chest at midpoint:



The story is here: http://www.woodshopdemos.com/sidebd-two-1.htm

[Mike Cutler]

Alan

How much education/experience in woodworking do you have? This may help folks better offer advice. I see that you are taking classes, but a little more info always helps.

The Festool line of products are top notch. No matter where your wood working takes you, these will always be a prudent investment and return on quality. You really can't go wrong buying Festool. (Be sure to get the vacuum.)

The TS 55 can replicate almost all of the basic functions a table saw performs. Limitations would be depth of cut, dado's and power, to name a few.
Most folks tend to work with 4/4 material as a normal course, and the TS55 can easily handle any 4/4 material. The thicker heavier material will require the "beef" of a TS, but you'll know when you need one.
Drop down to the EZ forum and check out the bench setups that Dino, and Burt Waddell have come up with. This will give you an idea of just how versatile and complete a GCSS (Guided Circular Saw System) can be. Routers can be operated on the GCSS rails also.

I like Rick's idea of getting a cheap TS that you can leave behind. There are always contractor saws for sale in every price range used. A TS is a basic component of a wood working shop. Put it on casters to roll out of the way when not in use. If course a TS means that you'll need a DC( Dust Collector).

A little food for thought.
Most hobbiest, myself included, tend to make one off projects. We're not into mass production. Hand tools in the one off environment can save you a lot of time making jigs and guides and such to control machines, stationary, or handheld. Study and learn proper hand tool usage. They'll save you time and space.

[Chris Rosenberger]

Alan,

If can afford Festool tools, they are excellent tools to start with. I started out with a saw & guide system over 30 years ago. It was a 2 x 4 & a power saw. I saw the Festool guide system for the first time last summer. The main reason I got it was for job site use. Even though I have a complete shop, I use it in the shop as much as I do on job sites.

[Prashun Patel]

With all due respect to Festool, I don't think you need to start there.

The EZ system sounds just up your alley. It'll give you great versatility for under $1000. Then if you determine you need other tools, you can add them.

IMHO, Festool is a good 2nd or 3rd upgrade; I think you'll truly appreciate them then.

[Jeff Monson]

Start with the Festool guide rails and the 75 saw, if you can afford it, you will not regret it. I dont agree it should be your 2nd or 3rd upgrade, start with quality tools if you can afford them, they will make you a better and more efficient woodworker from the start. I have alot of Festool tools and love each and every one.

[Jesse Cloud]

OK, here's my two cents worth...
From bitter experience, I can tell you - don't buy something cheap and plan to upgrade later - you waste $$ and live with crap for a long time.

Quality tools are more important for beginners than for pros. I know it sounds odd, but quality tools are easier to set up and keep their settings. Cheap stuff has slop in the settings and makes it much harder to be accurate. With experience, you can work around that issue.

Get good dust control from day one (built in with Festool). I wish I had. I have paid with my health for all that stuff I breathed in over the years.

I still have my tablesaw. Its used more as an assembly table than anything else. Still use it for big production jobs, dadoes. and odds and ends, but it really doesn't justify the space it takes up. If I had started with Festool, I probably never would have bought a tablesaw.

The MFT/3 is great for using Festool and other power tools, for glue up, and general work. It is not sturdy enough for serious hand tool work, but it doesn't sound like that's where you are headed right now.

To do serious woodworking, you need a bandsaw, jointer, and planer. If you have access to those at school, I suggest you use them while you are starting out. The school probably has bigger and better machines than most of us can afford anyhow.

Festool is a safe bet. If you change your mind, you can sell your used tools for close to what you paid for them. The stuff you buy at the BORG might bring 50% used if you take good care of it...

[Peter Quadarella]

I went with the EZ system because it is designed from the ground up to be portable, safe, durable, and a complete system. It is growing, and the intention is to replace other tools like table saws and router tables. In addition, Festool is a large company with all the overhead that comes with. With EZ you are buying direct from the inventor, which gives much better prices often with more substantial materials (e.g. the rails).

In my opinion, Festool shines in their innovation. The Domino for example is a truly unique tool. Some of their other stuff has great features, much of which is great for professionals who have to work in customer's houses (quiet, great dust collection) or for those who already have everything and want upgrades.

But with a limited budget, trying to build stuff with just the 2 or 3 tools your budget will allow if you are buying Festool is a mistake I think. Some of the Festool stuff is unnecessary, and some is great, and I think it's actually cheaper to upgrade the tools you really need the functionality in, than to buy everything Festool from the start.

[Peter Quadarella]

Also, I would add that building a workbench can be great practice, and is a lot cheaper than buying one. Typically you would get a more sturdy bench than the purchased variety as well. Your first bench doesn't have to be a masterpiece of solid beech and dovetails. You could use borg 2x4s for example.

[Mike Cutler]

OK, here's my two cents worth...

Quality tools are more important for beginners than for pros. I know it sounds odd, but quality tools are easier to set up and keep their settings. Cheap stuff has slop in the settings and makes it much harder to be accurate. With experience, you can work around that issue.

Amen Jesse

I don't have a shop full of expensive tool, mostly mid range to lower stuff (except for hand tools). But I took wood shop throughout Jr. High and High School. Having learned on quality industrial grade machines and hand tools was invaluable to me when I picked woodworking back up as an adult. I knew what the machine was supposed to be able to do. (Of course doing it again was a little different story.,)

Starting out with crappy tools and a lack of knowledge can be a big obstacle to overcome, and may eventually cause a person to give up. Worse yet, it can cause an injury.

[Peter Quadarella]

I agree about the statements regarding quality tools btw. I just don't agree with the subtle implication that anything besides Festool is not quality. Bosch and Makita, for example, make several quality tools.

[Prashun Patel]

I agree with Peter. Believe me, I learned the hard way that buying cheap just doesn't pay.

However, you gotta also be careful not to buy into the hype that the only way to skin a cat is to either buy Festool or a Sawstop.

For example: You can get a great Bosch ROS with an excellent shopvac and hepa filters or a a Fein Turbo and all the hose you want for a fraction of the price of a Festool rotex and a Festool vac. Both are excellent, and the subtleties of the Festool rotex feel might be lost on a beginner.

Another case in point: You can get a $1200 Kapex or a top of the line $600 Bosch 12" SCMS. Both excellent tools, but the Kapex just might be overkill with a lot of nice-to-have-but-not-necessary features.