White Oak vs. Red Oak?

[Mark Rios]

A few months ago my local WWing club had a man show up to an orchard with his portable mill. Well, it was only portable if you had a huge truck to pull it. It was a monster with all the bells and whistles. It adjusted the log and turned it over and rolled it around and made you coffee and everything. He came with his mill and a bobcat to move the big logs around with.

Anyway, one of the big logs that was milled for the club was oak and a discussion ensued about how to tell white oak from red oak. This man, who has a degree in some kind of wood/tree/forestry field said that there was no way to tell the difference between red and white oak by eye. He said that it could only be definitively identified under a microscope. Does this sound correct to anyone? I'm not meaning to doubt this guy, he is (sounds) very knowledgeable about wood and his livelihood is made knowing this stuff but this sounded odd to me. Even I can see differences in the color, grain and texture of different oak boards that I've seen. I even have, what looks like to me, three different kinds/types of oak in my garage. They all are different color and have a different feel and look to each of them. But, Im just a bonehead and I wondered what you wood experts thought.

Anyone?

[Paul Girouard]

At what point in the process are you wondering about?

Here's two google links , it shouldn't be a problem, except maybe at the cut / milled time / rough boards in other words.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_oak

Types of W.Oak

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ection_Quercus


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Red_Oak

There doesn't seem to be as many types of R.Oak.



I know there are different types of White Oaks , Garry's are W.Oak twisty narly trees.

But other than that specificy what type of White Oak I'd think it could be done.

Leaves , bark , color all are different as is cell structure.

[Ben Rafael]

Next thing he'll be telling you that a microscope is required to tell the difference between a cougar and a puma.

I've worked with oak for years, the red oak always had a slight red/pink to it. The white oak didn't. Put them next to each other and the difference is obvious. I dont need a microscope.

[glenn bradley]

"said that there was no way to tell the difference between red and white oak by eye"

There are a few things I can't tell by eye anymore but the difference between these isn't one of them . . yet ;-) The larger pores and shorter rays are a giveaway in red oak for me. Being a Californian, I've grown up around red oak furniture just about everywhere so maybe it is the familiarity with red that makes white easier to spot for me(?)

[Brandon Shew]

This man, who has a degree in some kind of wood/tree/forestry field said that there was no way to tell the difference between red and white oak by eye. He said that it could only be definitively identified under a microscope. Does this sound correct to anyone?

No. Looking at the leaves is the first way to see the difference. If you were just looking at the wood, that should be rather easy to determine as well.

[Ben Rafael]

"said that there was no way to tell the difference between red and white oak by eye"

There are a few things I can't tell by eye anymore but the difference between these isn't one of them . . yet ;-) The larger pores and shorter rays are a giveaway in red oak for me. Being a Californian, I've grown up around red oak furniture just about everywhere so maybe it is the familiarity with red that makes white easier to spot for me(?)

Agreed, the rays look different.
It's kind of like telling the difference between twin kids, if they're yours, it's obvious.

[John Eaton]

The bark is also distinctively different between the two species (usually) - white oak appears "whiter" in the grove plus it has these interesting bark "flakes" that red oak doesn't. I can take some snaps of the trees in my front yard tomorrow if anyone is interested.

-- John

[Jim Becker]

And they often smell different...

It's true that a microscopic examination is the only "definitive" way to declare a species, but folks with experience can usually tell the difference between red and white in many cases.

And then there is the "cold drink" test where you use a piece of the wood as a drinking straw. Red oak works. White does not.

[Peter Quinn]

The educated gentleman is either a quack or a crank. At this point I think i could tell the difference in a dark room. Bark, leaves, acorns, smell color, weight, grain, the little bumpy structures visible in the end grain of WO. Scientists often convince themselves that the rest of us are helpless without them.

Does it smell like cat pee when the saw goes through it, or like almost burnt toasted pop corn?

[Paul Girouard]

I'd say again, the only time it would be hard or the hardest to tell for me would be rough sawn stage. Lots of woods are toughest to ID at that time IMO.

But then most folks don't get to look at that much lumber at that point as most lumber is delivered at least a minimum of skip planed .

[Casey Gooding]

White Oak has rounded leaves. Red Oak has pointy leaves.
Of course this only works if you have the leaves.

[Tony Bilello]

The end grain on white oak is closed and tight and on red oak it is noticably open with larger pores.
Sometimes, not always, I can tell by weight. Usually there is a noticable difference in how much heavier the white oak is.
Not to sound too sarcastic, but your table saw will know for sure.

Tony B

[Bob Genovesi]

White Oak has rounded leaves. Red Oak has pointy leaves.

BINGO!!

This is the way I've always tell them them apart. If you're buying boards from a sawmill then you have to relay on them to point you to the right pile.

[Joe Spear]

Jim Becker's "cold drink" test is right on the money. The channels of red oak are open all the way. Roy Underhill used to demonstrate it on his tv show. Take a stick of the wood about a foot long. Stick one end in a glass of water and blow. A red oak stick will allow air through and cause bubbles in the water. White oak will not. The pointy-rounded leaf method will also work if you still have the leaves to look at.

[Ben Rafael]

Me thinks the scientist is Mr.Magoo and needs a microscope to see the bubbles.