Is Festool really that good?

[Karl Brogger]

One of my Milwaukee 10" mitre saws it taking a crap on me. Are these really worth $1300?

[guy knight]

when i need a new csms it will be a kapex

[Peter Quinn]

Karl, stop screwing around with miter saws and get a Griggio slider with the mitering out rigger.

Seriously though, is there an outlet where you can check one out? I use a makita at work and a small hitachi. Can't see what the extra $800 gets you having demoed one at a woodcraft. Nice saw yes, but $1300?

[Brandon Shew]

One of my Milwaukee 10" mitre saws it taking a crap on me. Are these really worth $1300?

Is a Mercedes E-Class really worth $52,000? Maybe not when you can buy a Lexus ES for $34,000. There are certainly differences, but almost $20K worth??? Same goes for a nice Makita or Bosch vs. the Kapex (which is 3x the price). You have to decide if the pros are worth the money.

[Eric Larsen]

The S-Class has more leg room.

Is a Mercedes E-Class really worth $52,000? Maybe not when you can buy a Lexus ES for $34,000. There are certainly differences, but almost $20K worth??? Same goes for a nice Makita or Bosch vs. the Kapex (which is 3x the price). You have to decide if the pros are worth the money.

[Wade Lippman]

One of my Milwaukee 10" mitre saws it taking a crap on me. Are these really worth $1300?

I've had one for a couple months and love it. It is compact, leaves a perfect edge, sets accurately and easily, the laser and dust collection actually work pretty well.

If I had more room in my shop so I could put in a good DC hood for it, and had the room for a standard slider I don't think I could justify the expense. But I don't have that room, so the Kapex is great. (supposedly it also makes big cuts more accurately than other sliders, but I haven't used the others enough to have an opinion on that).

If I had to pay full retail I am not sure I could have justified it, but MS was kind enough to chip in $250.

There have been complaints that it isn't as well made as other Festools. My throat plate has buckled; apparently it got bigger and popped up. That isn't a good omen, but otherwise it is great.

[jason lambert]

I own one and I aggree with wade. It is the best out there but the price is kind of steap for what it is and it is not perfect. I really don't get much better cuts than my old dewalt, but it does save space better dust collection and is a nicer saw.

[Per Swenson]

Karl,

I just took the liberty of checking your profile before I answered.

You are a cabinet maker. That means your a pro.
A 1300 dollar miter saw ain't for everybody, but when your livelihood
depends on the tools you use daily, then the kapex is a excellent choice.

Per

[Matt Hutchinson]

I have been working at the local Woodcraft store for about 5 weeks now. I don't know everything about Festool yet, but I have had the opportunity to use the Kapex and get familiarized with its features. There is no miter saw out there like it. It is a cross between a SCMS and an RAS (it has the ability to cut repeatable grooves), and the dust collection is over 91%! (There's a whole lot more to it, but I am not here to sell you a saw. )

But what Per has said basically clarifies the real issue. If you are a hobbyist, a $1300 'cutoff' saw doesn't seem within the budget. But if you are a pro, especially if you need on site precision, it becomes a different ball game. A co-worker at the place of my employment made an excellent point. If it will make you money, $1300 is a reasonable expense. It can do many things that a typical saw simply cannot at a quality that's unmatched.

Will it make you money?

Hutch

[Tim Malyszko]

I am an 8 month Festool Convert and a hobbiest who also does a ton around the house and an occassional project for a neighbor. I currently use a Dewalt DW708 and have no intentions of replacing it unless it dies on me. With that being said, if I had to replace it, I would go with the Kapex. I've demoed it at a couple of our local Festool distributors and it is just one sweet machine. The two things I really like about it is the footprint and the dust collection.

• I can make nearly all the same cuts with it as I could with my DW708 (the Dewalt can cut wider boards, but I normally make these cuts on a tablesaw anyway) and it's footprint is smaller, making it easier to move from one place to another.
• Right now, I had to move my DW708 from the shop to the basement to install a ceiling and frame some new basement windows. What sucks about it is that there is dust all over my basemet workbench and tools and a layer all over the basement. While the Kapex dust collection isn't quite as good as the Festool Sanders, it's still significantly better than the DW708. Being able to easily move the Kapex with my CT-22 vac is a big plus for me.

I purchased my first Festool Sander 8 months ago and have since purchased 2 additional sanders, the jigsaw and the TS55 and find myself always reaching for the Festools. They are my favorite tools in the shop and are so well engineered.

As a hobbiest, some people my think I'm crazy for paying a premium for Festool, but I look at them as a long term investment. I don't ever plan on replacing any of my Festools until I wear them out, and judging by the way they are built, that won't be for decades. When you look at it that way, the lifetime price isn't too bad.

On one hand, If I were in your shoes and had $1,300 to spend, I would go with the Kapex in a heartbeat. On the the other hand, If I only had say half that to spend and needed something right away, I would stay away from Festool as it's not worth going into debt over any tool purchase.

Good luck with your decision.

[Larry Fox]

Your title is inquiring about Festool but this thread seems to be about the Kapex. I took the plunge a while back and currently have two sanders, a CT-22 and a Domino. About the only tool they make that I don't lust after is the Kapex because as a hobby guy I can't justify $1300 for a cutoff saw and the planer as I just don't see it's purpose.

If you have never used one you definitely owe it to yourself to check them out at a local distributor. In my opinion, they have several very important features.

1) Quality. Hands-down the best quality tools in their class.
2) They operate as a system. This is important to me because between kids activities, day job and just stuff my shop time is very precious. Stuff just works together the way that you wuld want / expect it to.
3) There are awide range of accessories available and they are all part of the system.
4) They do carry a hefty price tag for sure but I actually think they offer a great value proposition when you take everything into consideration. As a 42-year old hobby guy, I expect these these tools to last me the rest of my life. Maybe that won't turn out to be true but the quality of the tool makes me think they will.
5) Dust control. They prettu much eat their own dust which is fantastic. Saves me shop time as I don't need to clean up after them.

[Ben Rafael]

I have a 50 year old no name miter saw with zero dust collection. With a good blade it will make a clean and accurate cut. I've used it to make fine picture frames and it does as good a job at it as possible for any saw. The miters line up perfectly unless I screw up. I dont understand everbodys fetish with hyperaccuracy. We're cutting wood, it changes it dimensions within minutes of being cut, only a machinist cares about 1/100th of an inch since in metals it matters.
Unless you use a miter saw daily I'd get one that costs around $300.
For $1300 you can get a really nice tablesaw.

[Per Swenson]

Ben,

I don't want be picky, but I really have to disagree with

your suggestion that accuracy is not crucial in my line of work.
High end custom hardwood installs.

Now, no doubt you may have a old saw, but the first motorized portable miter saw was made by Rockwell/delta in 1966. And they were far from accurate.

Try this at home, with any miter saw. Cut 4 isosceles triangles out of the same stock and try to assemble them into a flat square.
Guarantee you the last one ain't going to fit and will need to be fiddled with.

The 1300 dollar kapex does this flawlessly and frankly for 1300 bucks it better.

I get paid for fit and finish, and I would go broke trucking my sawstop to the jobs.

PS

Now if your talking a 50 year old radial arm saw, that's a whole different kettle of fish.

Per

[Ben Rafael]

My saw was bought by my father in the early 60's from a friend of his who got it in the late 50's. It is a no name saw and is accurate enough to make perfect miters. Rockwell might have been the first to mass produce the portable, but they certainly weren't the first to make them. These were made in Los Angeles in some quantity.
Anyway, my comment is that 1/100th of an inch generally doesn't matter since the wood will likely move more than that anyway.
People have produced flawless miters before kapex and will continue to do so. I'm sure the kapex has it's place, but my guess is that for most people it is a waste of money.

[Matt Ocel]

The best thing is it doesn't use much lectricity!


Karl, Seriously - If you want you can take a Kapex for a test run up in Burnsville at Rockler.
Corner of 42 and 5. A little NW of Buck Hill.