Burned up my router: advice please

[Andy Pratt]

Last week I burned up my router motor making raised panels. I'm pretty sure of why it happened, but I want to run it by you guys to make sure I don't ever do this again, $150 is a steep price for a mistake.

Details: Making raised panels in western maple with a dewalt 618 2&1/4HP router (in a table), freud 1/2" 2+2 3&1/4" bit with backcutter (brand new bit), router on setting "1".

Everything I had read here made me think I needed to accomplish the cut in multiple passes, but when I watched the instructional video that came with the raised panel bit set the demonstrator did it in one pass (albeit using a 3+ HP router). So, I went against my better judgement and started doing them in one pass. Panels are roughly 15"X32", the first one went well so I stopped being worried about it, I started getting warning signs and a light smell on the second panel but ignored it like an idiot, router burned up on the third panel. Severe smoke, still hot to the touch 30 min after I removed it from the table. I'm running a 6" dust port around the router at the base of the table and through that would keep it pretty cool but I was misguided in that idea. I think I should have just done it in multiple passes and maybe gave the router some cool down time between panels, would this probably have done the trick?

Questions?
- Was I incorrect to try to do this much in one pass with my router?
- Are there shapers that take 1/2" router bits that I can buy to be able to do this kind of thing in one pass?
- Was the video showing an improper technique or would this thing be okay if I had been using the same 3HP+ router as the video?

Thanks in advance for the input,
Andy

[pat warner]

Way too much wood/pass, not surprised.
Moreover, in my view, cutters > 2" in length or diameter have no business in any 110 volt router.
Routers

[Paul Greathouse]

Last week I burned up my router motor making raised panels. I'm pretty sure of why it happened, but I want to run it by you guys to make sure I don't ever do this again, $150 is a steep price for a mistake.

Details: Making raised panels in western maple with a dewalt 618 2&1/4HP router (in a table), freud 1/2" 2+2 3&1/4" bit with backcutter (brand new bit), router on setting "1".

Everything I had read here made me think I needed to accomplish the cut in multiple passes, but when I watched the instructional video that came with the raised panel bit set the demonstrator did it in one pass (albeit using a 3+ HP router). So, I went against my better judgement and started doing them in one pass. Panels are roughly 15"X32", the first one went well so I stopped being worried about it, I started getting warning signs and a light smell on the second panel but ignored it like an idiot, router burned up on the third panel. Severe smoke, still hot to the touch 30 min after I removed it from the table. I'm running a 6" dust port around the router at the base of the table and through that would keep it pretty cool but I was misguided in that idea. I think I should have just done it in multiple passes and maybe gave the router some cool down time between panels, would this probably have done the trick?

Questions?
- Was I incorrect to try to do this much in one pass with my router?
- Are there shapers that take 1/2" router bits that I can buy to be able to do this kind of thing in one pass?
- Was the video showing an improper technique or would this thing be okay if I had been using the same 3HP+ router as the video?

Thanks in advance for the input,
Andy

Andy,

That must be one great bit if even a 3hp+ router can perform the route in one pass. I run a Porter Cable 3 1/4hp in my table, I have a 3" Ogee raised panel bit (don't remember the brand) and I always do it in several passes.

I don't use a backcutter bit so I can set my fence and just raise the router for each pass with my benchdog lift. I can see how it would be a pain making multiple passes with a backcutter, you would have to stay with the same bit height and move the fence. I do make a backcut on my panels but I do it with a 1/2" straight bit. I know double setup but it works for me.

I would recommend getting a 3hp+ router for table use especially if you are going to be running large bits on a regular basis. If you have a lift two good fixed base routers are the Porter Cable 7518 and I've heard some good reviews on the big Milwakee.

If you don't have a lift and will be using a plunge base, just about all of the big name brands have 3hp+ routers. I prefer the Dewalt 625, its an old European design (Elu) and is a great router.

If you want to step up to a shaper there are some that will take router bits. I don't recall which ones but it is done with a reducer bushing if I recall correctly. I've heard others say that the HP rating on a shaper is actual HP and a routers rating is a little trumped up, which would make a shaper of the same HP as your router more powerful.

[Steve Clardy]

I've never run panels on a router table. Don't have any raised router bits.

Always felt like panels were a job for a shaper, which is what I use.

[David DeCristoforo]

This is shaper work. I'm not at all surprised you smoked your router. Most shapers can be had with a 1/2" router collet. But if you plan to do much of this kind of work, you need some good shaper cutters running on at least a 3/4" (and preferably a 1 1/4") spindle.

[William OConnell]

First of all I would never disagree with Pat warner regarding anything router. Having said that ,

As far as question one it just doesn't make sense trying to make one pass on a raised panel bit no matter how big the router. Besides what happened to you (smoked motor it seems) tearout is more likeley to occur. With multiple passes you can alleviate most if not all of that.

Yes there are shapers that take a 1/2" router bit adapters that can do it in one pass

I personally believe the video was showing an improper technique. I use a PC 7518 in a table and do raised panels for cabinet and interior doors quite often with no ill affect , however I always do 3 if not 4 passes because
A) tear out sucks
B) sanding sucks almost as bad as tearout
C) Smoking a router sucks big time

Doing multiple passes isn't that time consuming really I just run all the doors, move the fence, run all the doors again, move the fence, etc.

[Denny Rice]

With the proper jig, you can also make raised panels on a tablesaw. Too much wood removal for a router without multiple passes.

[Andy Pratt]

Thanks guys, wish I hadn't watched the video in retrospect. I'm sure they were just doing it that way to quickly show the process, looking back I'm a bit sheepish at having done it the way I did, common sense should have led me otherwise.

With the backcutter it seems annoying that I'll be wearing out the outer edge of the bit a lot faster than the inside (since it will be doing the lion's share of the cutting) but maybe there's no way around it. I could have had a lifetime of sharpenings for the price of the router I just ruined so I think I'll take this as a lesson to stop looking for easy shortcuts.

I would like to stick with 1/2" router bits and not have to get into buying new cutters for a shaper. Is there any reason I couldn't just buy a good 3HP shaper that accepts 1/2" router bits and plan on working that pretty hard? With that setup, should I still not do it all in one pass?

Thanks,
Andy

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Andy, yes you can put a 1/2" collet in a shaper and run router bits, however.......

- a router bit is much smaller in diameter than a panel raising cutter for a shaper. The larger shaper cutter has much better performance, longevity and cutting geometry.

- regardless of the above statement, I find that large router bits work better in a shaper than they do in a router, however they aren't in the same league as a shaper cutter in a shaper

- a router bit is much weaker than a large diameter shaper spindle, and will bend or break if you really push wood through the cutter. (Remember the smaller shapers are 3 HP, a big router is only about 1 HP). The shaper won't slow down at all, you'll just bend or break the router bit. You must use reduced feed rates if you use a router bit in a shaper.

- shapers allow you to use a feeder, and have superior fences and guards. With a feeder you can also do sychronized or climb cutting, for reduced tearout in difficult cuts.

- feeders make the ultimate cutter guard, your hands aren't anywhere near the cutter.

- you won't ever read a "My Shaper Table is Sagging" thread on the forum

- you can flip a shaper cutter over and use reverse spindle rotation for situations where the grain is going the opposite way.

- shapers can run cutter heads that take HSS knives which produce a superior cut in solid wood. Knives are about $20 per pair.

Regards, Rod.

[David Werkheiser]

I would be the first to agree that a shaper works best for raising panels, but for those that don't have a shaper:
Hog off the bulk of material with a table saw first, than go to the router table.
Switch to a vertical panel raising bit, it takes a smaller cut.
Don't use the back cutter and plane the panels to 5/8" (most door companies do this).
Do multiple passes as said before, I have an old Powermatic 3hp. shaper that with certain woods bogs down and stalls, the people that do this for a living use 5-9 hp. shapers

[John Holder]

I, to this point, have done all my panels with the router and have not had any issue. The first router I had (I am embarrased to say) was the old craftsman 2hp made by Ryobi. In a rockler table. I did a kitchen without any ill effects. I used a rockler bit with backcutter. The guys at the woodworking show are always running that crap through in one pass trying to show off their bits. But IMHO a good set of fence shims and four passes can reduce material being removed, increase feed speed which will reduce motor loading and blade heat, and reduce tearout. I used some 1/4 and 1/2 polyethelene sheets I got from Mcmaster carr. The first kitchen I do that pays I am going to go the route of the shaper. Not because i am that worried the router won't handle it but because of set up time on the bits. Shaper- Panel cutter , Router table- Rails, Router in TS ext- Stiles

[Lee Schierer]

While I don't disagree with any of the previous posts your problem may not be the routher, but the lack of air circulation. Most routes pull air in near their base and out the top to cool the motor (I've never understood why they would design them to pull the saw dust through the motor). While your cutter was pretty large for a 2-1/2 Hp router it should have handled it. If the cutter wasn't bogging down a lot making the cut, the router should have been okay.

A common mistake made on dust collection systems is to have a large dust port connection and not enough air getting in to the box for the air to actually move. I see this quite often and people are scratching their heads wondering why they aren't picking up the dust. I was amazed that my Freud 2-1/2 Hp router got quite warm in my router table in just a couple of minutes (less than 5) of running when I didn't bother to turn on my DC for a simple cut I needed to make. Make sure you have at least the same number of square inches of air inlet to your router table as you have in the hose connected to it.

When making heavy cuts, make sure the chips are not falling into the motor openings clogging the air flow.

[Peter Quinn]

With the backcutter it seems annoying that I'll be wearing out the outer edge of the bit a lot faster than the inside (since it will be doing the lion's share of the cutting) but maybe there's no way around it. I could have had a lifetime of sharpenings for the price of the router I just ruined so I think I'll take this as a lesson to stop looking for easy shortcuts.

I would like to stick with 1/2" router bits and not have to get into buying new cutters for a shaper. Is there any reason I couldn't just buy a good 3HP shaper that accepts 1/2" router bits and plan on working that pretty hard? With that setup, should I still not do it all in one pass?

Thanks,
Andy

Don't worry about wearing out the tips on your cutters, there is no way around it and it doesn't happen fast enough to be annoying.

I think you killed it with too heavy of a cut and as Lee said not enough air flow. Correct the air flow issue, and consider using at least three passes with a router bit, whether it is chucked in a router table or a shaper with a router collet. Also consider a bigger router, like a 3HP production model if you do panels regularly. I think you could easily fatigue a router bit with a shaper doing full depth cuts in single passes, and that is scarry. While the cost is higher, the first time you make raised panels on a shaper, even a 3HP machine, will likely be the last time you will ever want to do them on a router. If you get the shaper, get a power feed and the cutters, you'll be broke but not sorry.

If your volume of production and budget don't demand or allow a proper shaper setup, then take your time and learn to do them on the router. The results can be excellent, and you already have one of the best bits you could be using. I use Freud 2X2 panel raisers in a freehand jig for undercutting profiles on counter and table tops (shhhh, don't tell my mother, or OSHA, or my insurance agent).

I personally don't like doing the panel profile and the back cut in one operation and feel it is a false economy of time considering the annoyance of setting it up. I prefer to make the panel profile to my satisfaction, then do the back cut as a second operation using either a dedicated back cutter or a large cove bit. It eliminates the need to shim your cutter stack to match your door grooves and makes multi passes on the router with a horizontal bit easier, or allows you to use a vertical bit with a smaller router.

[Phil Thien]

Just a heads-up that your router came w/ a three-year warranty. So if you can find your receipt I'd take it to a service center for repair.

[Michael Schwartz]

3 reasons to take multiple passes when working with a router.

1. Safer, less chance of a kickback
2. Less wear and tear on your router
3. Better cut quality.

Furthermore a shallower cut depth will require less force, resulting in less potential bit deflection, and for certain types of cuts result in fewer chips helping aid chip extraction and prevent chips from loading up in the cut causing further bit deflection/burning.

Make sure when using large diameter bits that you using the manufacturers recommended speed for the bit as larger bits require a slower speed.