Festool square cuts; I love my Festool MFT table…BUT…

[Daniel Hillmer]

I’ve had a Festool MFT 800 table and the TS 55 EQ saw for almost two years now. I love the saw and table combo, love their other tools, the table setup has many uses, saw is extremely versatile...

My only problem with the table is that no matter how hard I try, I can’t seem to get perfectly square AND repeatable cuts on plywood panels – 23 x 32 inch in that size range. I think I was able to do it a few times with an extreme amount of fiddling with a precision triangle, lining up the guide rail perpendicular to the fence, but it takes a lot of time and it seems after a while, it goes out of alignment, and then I have to spend a lot of time again getting the rail aligned perfectly. Most of the time I can get the corners pretty darn close to square, just not as square as I think I could with a good cabinet saw. Making accurate and repeatable angle cuts in large panels is also a problem. I’ve never owned a table saw so I have not been “tainted” yet about not being able to utilize the festool.

Anyway, I gave up on attaching the guide rail to the table and I went out and purchased a Pinnacle cabinet makers square, now I just cut a straight edge using the guide rail un attached to the table - laying it down on plywood, first I scribe a perpendicular line in plywood using the Pinnacle, lay the guide rail over the scribed line, and if I really take my time, I can get a perfectly square corner, but sometimes even that is not repeatable, it is more repeatable than were I to use the guide rail attached to the MFT and use the fence though. Either method takes a lot of time to get perfect.

I looked at the new MFT table which came out earlier this year at my local dealer, it looks beefed up a bit - a bit more stable, but I still don’t see how it can solve the repeatability problem. I keep thinking that extruded aluminum and MDF is no match for a cast iron table top and precision t-saw fence.

So It’s gotten to the point that I’m considering dropping another grand and purchasing a Grizzly G1023SL table saw, and then just use the Festool as a panel saw and build table, sanding table, etc. But I want to exhaust all possibilities first with the MFT to see if I can get repeatable square cuts somehow, either by using a different technique, maybe retrofitting the table somehow, maybe I’m doing something wrong, before I drop another grand.

Has anyone actually been able to get perfectly square AND repeatable square cuts on plywood cabinet panels with the MFT 800? Either with the standard Festool accessories, or retro fitting the table somehow?

If so, howdja do it?

[Dave Avery]

Daniel,

I agree - have an older version of the MFT and it's my least favorite Festool purchase. Hopefully somebody smarter than us will chime in...... Best. Dave.

[Dave Falkenstein]

This might seem way too obvious, but... I have a MFT1080. When using the guide rail on the MFT, are you setting the guide rail firmly into the positioning "pin" on the front rail attachment? I set the rear rail height first, according the the thickness of the material I am working on. Then I loosen the vertical adjustment on the front attachment and raise the front of the rail with the positioning pin into the rail slot and above the work surface. Then keeping pressure on the rail and attachment, lower the rail to the work surface. If you don't do something like I described, the rail can move horizontally a little bit, throwing off your square cuts. I almost never move the rail from the square position, and I set it square using a large, thick, accurate square, and it stays that way. I'm satisfied that my square cuts are accurate and repeatable. There are several discussions at the Festool Owners Group forum on this same subject.

[Bruce Benjamin]

You love the table but you can't make square cuts? This is like saying you love your new car but you can't get it to make right hand turns...And you put up with it for 2 years! There is another popular brand of saw guide that some people are adapting to their festool stuff in order to get really good results with little effort. If you can't make what you have work you might want to look in that direction...Isn't making square cuts sort of a requirement and a very basic task? Good luck and I hope you get it figured out.

Bruce

I’ve had a Festool MFT 800 table and the TS 55 EQ saw for almost two years now. I love the saw and table combo, love their other tools, the table setup has many uses, saw is extremely versatile...

My only problem with the table is that no matter how hard I try, I can’t seem to get perfectly square AND repeatable cuts on plywood panels – 23 x 32 inch in that size range. I think I was able to do it a few times with an extreme amount of fiddling with a precision triangle, lining up the guide rail perpendicular to the fence, but it takes a lot of time and it seems after a while, it goes out of alignment, and then I have to spend a lot of time again getting the rail aligned perfectly. Most of the time I can get the corners pretty darn close to square, just not as square as I think I could with a good cabinet saw. Making accurate and repeatable angle cuts in large panels is also a problem. I’ve never owned a table saw so I have not been “tainted” yet about not being able to utilize the festool.

Anyway, I gave up on attaching the guide rail to the table and I went out and purchased a Pinnacle cabinet makers square, now I just cut a straight edge using the guide rail un attached to the table - laying it down on plywood, first I scribe a perpendicular line in plywood using the Pinnacle, lay the guide rail over the scribed line, and if I really take my time, I can get a perfectly square corner, but sometimes even that is not repeatable, it is more repeatable than were I to use the guide rail attached to the MFT and use the fence though. Either method takes a lot of time to get perfect.

I looked at the new MFT table which came out earlier this year at my local dealer, it looks beefed up a bit - a bit more stable, but I still don’t see how it can solve the repeatability problem. I keep thinking that extruded aluminum and MDF is no match for a cast iron table top and precision t-saw fence.

So It’s gotten to the point that I’m considering dropping another grand and purchasing a Grizzly G1023SL table saw, and then just use the Festool as a panel saw and build table, sanding table, etc. But I want to exhaust all possibilities first with the MFT to see if I can get repeatable square cuts somehow, either by using a different technique, maybe retrofitting the table somehow, maybe I’m doing something wrong, before I drop another grand.

Has anyone actually been able to get perfectly square AND repeatable square cuts on plywood cabinet panels with the MFT 800? Either with the standard Festool accessories, or retro fitting the table somehow?

If so, howdja do it?

[Daniel Hillmer]

Hi there Dave,

Oh first of all I made a mistake, I own the MFT 1080 table not MFT 800. Actually I own two MFT 1080 tables tied together end to end with the MFT connectors.

In answer to your above question, yes I do all of the above that you suggested, exactly as you describe, when ever I set the guide rail up for new projects.

I think a main issue with the MFT table, is in my situation, there are times when I want to use the table as a panel saw for cutting up 4 x 8 sheets of plywood into smaller chunks so I can cut out my cabinet panels. Or as a build table or a sanding table, or to do pocket hole joinery, etc.

When doing this, I often have to remove the guide rail from the table because it's in the way when I lay a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood down. There are also other times when I need to remove the guide rail for other projects because it gets in the way. So sometimes I don't have the luxury of never removing the guide rail from the square position (as you do), and in those situations, if I'm going from one job to another, the setup time is long and tedious to constantly have to square up the guide rail.

Even were I to leave the rail where it is, it's always a pain getting that rail perfectly square to the fence, sometimes I have to make three of four attempts to get it square and half the time it comes out square and the other times it does not. And that pin you are talking about, there is a slight amount of leeway between that and the guide rail channel, not much but maybe enough to have the rail slip slightly, not sure if that’s a factor though.

The height differential between the table top and guide rail also makes it difficult to place a precision square against the fence and the rail, because the rail rests on top of the fence and that causes most decent triangles to not be thick enough to butt up against the back side of the rail when squaring it up.

I guess why I bought the MFT table is because it is billed as a multi function table, I figured I could use it as a table saw, a sanding table, a build table, etc, which theoretically I can, it’s just that the setup time is extremely long when switching between jobs when going from table saw mode to other modes, and If I’m going to want to use it as a table saw and I have to leave it in that configuration in order to get quick, repeatable results, then it does not become a multi function table. So I may as well buy a table saw and use the MFT as not a table saw, but for other projects, if I can't solve this problem. Which is fine really it's a great table. But if I can solve my problem without spending another grand, that would be great.

So I guess I'm looking for a sure fire way, if it’s possible, to quickly set up the guide rail on the MFT 1080 square, very quickly if possible, and without need to having to make several test cuts to make sure the rail is square to the fence. If I could find a way to do that I’d not buy a table saw.

[Daniel Hillmer]

There is another popular brand of saw guide that some people are adapting to their festool stuff in order to get really good results with little effort. If you can't make what you have work you might want to look in that direction......Isn't making square cuts sort of a requirement and a very basic task? Good luck and I hope you get it figured out.

Bruce

Thanks Bruce - What's the other brand of saw guide I can adapt to the Festool??? I'm really interested!!!

[Mike Goetzke]

Dan - First off do you trim a fresh edge on the ply to start? I have found the edge from the store can be quite a bit off.

You should be able to incorporate the features I have on my table on yours to cut square panels. At the near end I have a continuous squaring fence. I use a square to line my guide rail as close as possible to this squaring fence. I use the 5-cut method to fine tune it. Then I butt my rip fence against the squaring fence and use the rail as a guide to cut the consumable end of the rip fence. Now if I remove the rail I can use the rip fence to re-set it. Takes a bit of time to set it up the first time but after that you are done:

[Daniel Hillmer]

Yes that's the first thing I do, trim a fresh edge from my plywood.

WOW that's really amazing! I take it that you designed this yourself?
Or is it commercially available either in kit form with plans or already built?

It's a great idea. I’d have to do some serious modifications to my MFT table though especially for the squaring fence to make it work. I could see using the Festool guide rail though and adapt it to your table. Would make more sense to just start from scratch for the table itself.

Question, what is the 5 cut method?

[Bruce Benjamin]

Thanks Bruce - What's the other brand of saw guide I can adapt to the Festool??? I'm really interested!!!

Dan, go to the Eurekazone forum in the Manufacturers section of Sawmill Creek. The brand is EZ Smart and the pics that Mike posted are of the EZ products. Give the forum a visit, ask any and all questions you have and you will get good, honest answers. Yes, festool people are always welcome there and there's more and more of them all the time. Many are starting to combine the festool stuff they have with some EZ stuff to make it work better. Some are then selling off some of the festool stuff and buy the EZ tools. Some are keeping what they got and just combining the two. Either way, you're welcome to the forum, even if you never buy any EZ tools at all.

Bruce

[Daniel Hillmer]

Dan, go to the Eurekazone forum in the Manufacturers section of Sawmill Creek. The brand is EZ Smart and the pics that Mike posted are of the EZ products. Give the forum a visit, ask any and all questions you have and you will get good, honest answers. Yes, festool people are always welcome there and there's more and more of them all the time. Many are starting to combine the festool stuff they have with some EZ stuff to make it work better. Some are then selling off some of the festool stuff and buy the EZ tools. Some are keeping what they got and just combining the two. Either way, you're welcome to the forum, even if you never buy any EZ tools at all.

Bruce

Wow just checked it out thanks much. I'll investigate.

Wish I had known about this set up two years ago when I bought all my Festool stuff.

[Mike Goetzke]

Yes that's the first thing I do, trim a fresh edge from my plywood.

WOW that's really amazing! I take it that you designed this yourself?
Or is it commercially available either in kit form with plans or already built?

It's a great idea. I’d have to do some serious modifications to my MFT table though especially for the squaring fence to make it work. I could see using the Festool guide rail though and adapt it to your table. Would make more sense to just start from scratch for the table itself.

Question, what is the 5 cut method?

I would think you could mod your set-up without much addition/investment.

Here is a link to one definition of the 5-cut method:

5-cut method

[John Stevens]

Hi, Daniel. Over on the Festool Owners' Group forum someone posted a great method for squaring the MFT fence to the blade. The rows & columns of holes are CNC drilled at precisely 90 degrees. Simply align your guide rail with a column, then use an auxiliary fence aligned to a row.

If your guide rail doesn't stay in the same line when it's repositioned to different heights, check the owner's manual, because it gives a method for adjusting the MFT hardware to ensure it does this.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

John

[Wade Lippman]

It is a PITA to get square, but once I have it set, all my cuts are perfect.
Frankly, I don't see why they wouldn't be. Nothing is going to move.

I wonder if your sides aren't parallel. I once couldn't get it cut square, and surprise surprise.

[Rob Blaustein]

Daniel,


Don't despair--it is absolutely possible to repeatedly cut square pieces with your setup. As David mentioned, this is has been discussed a few times on the Festool Owner's Group site and I highly recommend searching around there as well as John Lucas's woodshopdemos.com site. I'll try to spell out how I do it, which is similar to the approach that others use. Although it is easy to have the expectation that this system should be easy and intuitive to use out of the box, I've found that there is a learning curve replete with tricks that are not spelled out in the manual (but can be learned from others). Aside from some techniques that I'll mention, there is one auxilliary item that makes this MUCH easier and David Falkenstein mentioned this too--a good sized piece of wood that you know to be perfectly rectangular. I use something like a 2' x 2.5 ' piece of 3/4" ply. Alternatives can be seen here; the link is to John Lucas's site which, as I mentioned, has lots of good tips on using Festool equipment. The nice thing about the 3/4" ply is that it is thick and can rest against the rail and fence easily as described below.

• Set up the two rail attachment pieces so that the rail, when lowered and resting in the 'locked' position, is fairly parallel to the side of the table. Use the holes in the table as a guide. It doesn't have to perfectly parallel since the key thing is that the rail and the fence be perpendicular.
• Set up the fence so that it is close to perpendicular to the rail. Place your rectangular piece of wood against the rail, then run it up against the fence. Change the angle of the fence a few degrees as needed so that both the fence and rail are each butting up against the two perpendiclar edges. At this point the rail and fence should be perpendicular. Now comes a crucial step--you must lock down the fence using that knob that simultaneously attaches to both the fence and the aluminum exgtrusion on the side of the table. Don't rely on the index pins on the fence, they have too much slop.
• You can now adust the height of the rails as needed. There is one important tip that David mentioned in his post and it has to do with making sure the slot in the rail 'snaps' into the tab on that piece (not sure what it's called) when you lower it. Here's a related tip, but it is a little hard to describe. It is useful if, after attaching the pieces that hold that rail to the table, you end up having to apply a little bit of lateral tension in order to have the rail fit into the tab. That tends to avoid the slop that David mentioned.

Hope this is clear and that it helps. As to getting a piece of wood that is rectangular--that's another topic. Google 5-cut method and you'll find discussions of this. I've also used a steel 'machinist' square by ENCO that is about 1/2" thick and 8" by 18" but when I go to the ENCO site I see it has been discontinued.

Good luck!

--Rob

[Paul Johnstone]

Daniel,

If you are a pretty serious hobbyist and have the room, I'd highly recommend getting a table saw. I'm sure there's a way to make the circular saw and guide work. But for repeatable cuts, I don't see how it's going to any easier or more accurate.

Plus, a table saw is useful for so much more.