[OP]
Moderator
Anyone have a good online resource or a book that describes the usage of molding planes. I see that the molding planes usually come as a set in the form of a series of matched hollows and rounds, but how does one use them to create specific profiles? I also see several complex profile being sold on eBay, whose usage is obvious.
I am intrigues by these planes and want to increase my know how of them.
The means by which an end is reached must exemplify the value of the end itself.
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Will watch this thread closely as well....
- jbd in Denver
Member
There are 3 DVDs I have that helped me (I tend to learn things a bit better by seeing them in action):
"Traditional Molding Techniques: The Basics", with Don McConnell
"Making Traditional Side Escapement Planes", with Larry Williams
"Classic Plane Making: Volume 1", with Tod Herrli
The latter two are more about making the planes themselves, but they did help me.
The first one shows how to layout moldings, how to setup the cuts, and then actual use of the planes. I believe it also gives references for classic molding patterns, though I haven't watched it recently. I got the first two through Lie-Nielsen's website and the last one directly (via a google search).
[edited for clarity]
Contributor
Haven't seen much in print about this. One place to look may be the Stanley 55 instruction manual. One of the things it shows is that with the simple molding planes one has to use different planes to make the finished shape.
If one sets up a guide for the round, then moves it over to cut the hollow, the result will be an ogee shape. Run a small bead or grove along the edges and you have a simple, easy to make molding.
I was making some simple molding last night to go along the top of some shelves. I am always reminded of anything that has been overlooked.
Some important considerations:
Do not try to take a thick cut, this makes for a tendency for tear out and jamming. It is best to make a lot of smooth cuts than to try to go deep and get done quicker. The plane may stall, veer or split the wood.
Keep the blade tight. On a Stanley 45 or 55, there is a tendency for the blade to move side to side if the locking screw is not tight.
Stay on keel. Do not let the plane rock side to side and keep it tight to the guide or if it has a fence, use it to stay on track.
Always cut more than you think you need. Some suggest 10% more. The extra will come in handy for marking for coping or just having samples of what was made when the job is done.
On the Stanley and surely others, the fence is often not parallel to the plane body. This needs correction by shimming or trimming.
There have been other articles on line or in Fine Woodworking on how to pick the stock and how to prepare the stock with rabbets so the "shaped" plane does not have to cut as much.
The straighter the grain of the wood to be molded, the easier it will be to get the results wanted.
I recall an article in Fine Woodworking about using a beading blade, then a gouge of the same size as the bead is used to cut the bead into balls and balloons.
Good luck and hope this helps,
jim
Member
Jim's video is about using all specialty planes. Called Special Planes it goes into detail about how to use all kinds of planes to create molding's. You'll be amazed at how many ways there are to use your planes and how many do the same job. It's just like grandpa was sitting at the end of your bench giving you a lesson and someone filmed it. I've watched it at least 20 times.
Member
There are a couple of resources for using them, one specifically being Don McConnel's DVD. I have not seen it myself (yet) but have heard good things. There are also a couple online resources that I have seen:
http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/MakingMoldings.pdf
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworki....aspx?id=29710
http://www.hyperkitten.com/woodworking/molding.php
I would suggest starting with H&R as they are easier to sharpen and tune, especially if you need to reshape the iron (if it does not match the profile of the sole). Complex irons can be frustrating at best if they need reshaping.
Pick them up as you need them. Don't get hung up on sets of H&R. You don't need a matched set. Leave them for the collectors as their prices will reflect the fact that they are a matched set. You don't even need a matching pair of H&R from the same set as you are not making a mating joint with them. A hollow from one maker and a round from another maker with the same sized iron (NOT THE SAME NUMBER) will serve you just fine.
Pay no attention to the numbers stamped on the plane as they were not consistent between manufacturers. When I need a new one, I go strictly by the iron width. I have a mix of makers, American and English, and they all work well together as long as you pay no attention to the number. When buying a new one, ask the dealer (if buying online) to measure the width of the iron and that is how you should size them. If you buy locally, again, take a small ruler with you and measure the iron. A 1/2" hollow from Auburn and a 1/2" round from Sandusky won't have the same number stamped on them but it won't matter. They will both shape a profile with approximately a 1/2" radius.
The smaller sizes from 1/4" up to about 1" are going to be the most useful for furniture sized work. The larger sized ones are better for large crown and cornice moldings on big case pieces like highboys and tall chests.
While you are at it, pick up a couple of square or skew rabbet planes in different widths. These, along with your moving fillester and plow will be valuable in creating the initial steps prior to shaping with the H&Rs.
Welcome to a whole new world in hand planing! You thought bench planes were a slippery slope?! Just wait
!
[OP]
Moderator
thanks for the advice guys, keep 'em coming. I am going to look at the videos and perhaps get some of those. I too am a very visual learner, and videos help me more than books.
The means by which an end is reached must exemplify the value of the end itself.
Member
Zahid,
By all means, obtain Don McConnell's DVD 'Traditional Molding Techniques--The Basics'. Don makes a nice molding using hollows and rounds, step by step, with all reasoning explained, right before your eyes.
Don is an excellent teacher--I get the feeling he has done teaching before--and takes time periodically during the DVD to summarize what he has done up to that point, so that keep the overall picture in mind as you digest the details.
This is as good a video as you will ever see. $25 from Lie Nielsen. Or give the C&W folks a call there in Arkansas, and see if they have any on hand to sell.
He also has an advanced DVD coming out sometime in the not too distant future.
Wiley.....no financial interest, etc etc.
[OP]
Moderator
so if I could only pick one DVD, which one should I choose between Jim Kingshott and Don McConnell
The means by which an end is reached must exemplify the value of the end itself.
Member
I believe on that UK woodworking site a girl shows how to use these planes. Harry
Member
Zahid, since your original question concerns how to make a given profile, I would suggest the Don McConell video.
As to molding designs themselves, there is an architectural website that has a multi-part explanation of molding use and design. There are several architecture books that cover moldings as well (I am at work and not free to go and look at the titles right now) Also, there is a book coming out soon by a SAPFM member about furniture moldings. By sheer happenstance, the author is speaking to the Michigan chapter this weekend.
Moldings are a fascinating subject, and can add a substantial, if subtle, impact to your work. Of course they can do the opposite as well, if poorly chosen.
Mike
From the workshop under the staircase, Clinton Township, MI
Semper Audere!
Member
I second the McConnell DVD (I have both the Klingshott and the McConnell DVD). If you think about it, the usage for hollows and rounds is rather obvious to hog out a simple profile like a large ogee. The basics are to draw your molding profile on a piece of 1/8" plywood or hardboard (picture framing matte material also works well, but isn't quite as durable), then transfer that shape to both ends of the plank you're going to cut the molding in.
Note - the blank MUST have ends that are perfectly square to the edges, otherwise your drawing won't correspond between the two ends, and that'll make for a rough time of cutting a molding with planes. Also, the plank must be of a consistent thickness throughout.
Then, one uses a moving fillister (essentially an adjustable rabbet plane) and/or rabbet planes to remove squares of material along the length of the board. The end result from this step should have a rabbet close to touching your line on the end corresponding to the hollow of the profile, and a fillet (or square high point) corresponding to the convex portion of the profile. You then use these fillets and rabbets to guide your hollows and rounds (hollows go on the fillets, rounds in the rabbets) - you're essentially using the hollow to round over the square corner of the fillet, and the round to cut a portion of a circle in the inside corner of the rabbet.
One other point - it's important to make something called a "sticking board" to aid you in holding the plank still while you work it. Because you're running the various planes off of the end of the plank, it's inconvenient to run into a metal bench dog near the end of your stroke.
A sticking board is simply a solid, four-squared plank wide enough to accomodate the molding you'd like to make, with another, narrower strip glued to its edge to form an "L" shape. You then drive a couple of screws into the face grain near the end of the bed plank, and adjust them up and down to stop your molding plank from skittering off the end. The force of the plane keeps the board tight up against the sticking board's fence and end stop (the screws). The McConnell video shows one of these in use.
From the standpoint of getting a set of H&Rs, you can often find so-called "Harlequin" sets of H&Rs at British tool dealer's sites. Harlequins are sets of 18 planes - 9 hollows and 9 rounds, with the planes being matched up in terms of sizes of their cuts, but by different makers. Because they weren't truly a set to start out with, they've no collector's value, and are cheaper. A true set of 18 hollows and rounds by the same maker and with the same owner's stamp goes for about $900 for British makes, and about $1200 for an American set. Individual hollows and rounds at flea markets can often be had for about $10 each, so you can see that a large premium is placed on sets.
By the way - Hollows and Rounds are a bit unique in that they're labeled opposite from the way other molding planes are. A hollow is the plane with a hollow in the sole, and it cuts a round profile. A round is the plane with a round sole profile, and it cuts a hollow.
Last edited by David Keller NC; 10-15-2008 at 10:04 AM. Reason: Correction
Member
Zahid,Originally Posted by Zahid Naqvi
We're just four hours away from Little Rock. The foliage and scenery are spectacular. We're in the process of moving to a new shop--we should be pretty functional again by Saturday. I've been a little embarrassed about bringing people into our third-world type of shop in the past but the new shop is just fine. I've invested a lot of time and money over the last year to create a shop people might enjoy visiting. Come on up to Eureka, the people here are not as crazy as the media makes us out to be. Hmmm, maybe I should say some of us are not that crazy. I'll be out of town on the 29th and 30th and then we'll be in Berea in the middle of next month.
Member
David,
That was a really nice description. I feel like I could give it a go just based on your writing. Thank you for taking the time.
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Larry,
Glad to hear the leaves are at their peak! I've been in touch with Don, and my fiance and I have planned a trip to Eureka this weekend to see your shop. Sounds like our timing was good! Look forward to meeting you folks and seeing your new facility...
Allan
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible. Bertrand Russell
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