First ride in a hybrid

[Mitchell Andrus]

Last night, I rode in the front seat of a Toyota hybrid crossover SUV for about an hour. I forget the model name. Some city, some highway, then back to city.

We got off of the highway and I noticed that the engine 'stalled' at a light. I didn't know it was running about half of the time on volts until we reached the destination.

The info panel was turned on for me on the way home so I could watch the power flow...

I am impressed.

[Lance Norris]

My parents bought a Toyota Prius in 2004 when no one knew what they were. I was shocked when my father called and told me, because in my mind, he would have never bought a foreign car, being a loyal Chrysler owner for 50 years. When I went to look at the new car, I knew nothing about what makes a hybrid "special". The new Prius was sitting in his driveway and when he got into the car to move it into the garage, I was shocked because all of a sudden, it was moving and the only sound was from cruching gravel. My wife was startled and jumped back. I have since driven the car on several occasions and yes, the "stalling" of the engine at a stop is a little un-nerving at first. This is probably the only thing that takes a little getting used to, and other than that, if you didnt know what a hybrid was, you'd never know the difference. My parents love this car and tell everyone that fact whenever they get the chance. We now have 2 Priuses(Prei? ) in the family as my oldest brother now has one. My next new vehicle will be a hybrid of some sort, but right now, Im holding out for a conversion kit so I can run my 1987 Dodge Dakota on Ryobi 18 volt Lithium-ion batteries.

[Jim Becker]

Mitchell, I've been driving a Highlander Hybrid since late 2005. It does take a little bit to get used to that "stalling" feeling, but after awhile, you don't notice it. The electric motor(s) also have significant torque so you never notice any delay if for some reason you have to "stomp on it". I was used to this when I bought the vehicle as Professor Dr. SWMBO already was driving a 2002 Prius at that point. The 2002 was traded in this past March for a 2008 Prius which is even nicer. I get about 27 mpg highway in the highlander (a mile or two lower in cold weather) and I have managed 54 mpg in the Prius (with ME driving... ) on a recent business trip to Springfield MA. Professor Dr. SWMBO doesn't get as good mileage as I do, but she tends to accelerate harder and also only drives very short distances.

Lance, as much as my dad has been a "Caddy guy" since he retired many years ago, he has been pretty impressed with our Prius including the amount of room inside. I think he's been tempted a few times, if you know what I mean...

[Al Wasser]

OK, I am interested, but how do they do on snowy icy roads??? The lone report I have said they don't do well. Any better info?

[Jim Becker]

Al, my 2006 Highlander Hybrid is wonderful in bad weather--the electric motor in the rear that only kicks in when needed supplies a lot of extra grip. Our 2002 Prius was not so hot...until we changed to different tires. The OEM tires were terrible in snow, but the replacements (a different tire) made a notifiable difference. I can't comment on the 2008 Prius as we haven't had any snow yet... )

[Mike DeHart]

Just wondering, how fast do they start blowing hot air in the cold weather?

[Jim Becker]

Just wondering, how fast do they start blowing hot air in the cold weather?

The same as any other vehicle. The gas engine runs initially, even in warm weather, to top off the batteries and get things going for heat when that is necessary. The current generation of Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive is little affected by running the A/C in summer, unlike the earliest generations. Running the defroster, for example, on the 2002 Prius really did hit the gas mileage and doesn't on the 2008 or my Highlander. I'm not sure about the hybrid systems in the Ford and Nissan in that respect as they are based on an earlier Toyota system, but I don't know what generation.

[Karl Brogger]

My complaints about hybrid vehicles are as follows.

-Expensive initial cost.
-What is maintenance going to cost in 5 or 10 years?
-Mileage isn't really that great. 42 mpg for a hybrid Accord? Please, you can buy a diesel Jetta and get over 50mpg pretty easily.
-Batteries don't like cold weather. I'm talking COLD weather. Its not uncommon to see -30*F here in the winter. I've left my pickup running at jobs sites for the entire day because I was worried it wouldn't start again.
-Most of the cars that are dedicated hybrids, like the Prius, look like death traps to me. I'm used to driving a 7400# vehicle, so that may be just a issue of perspective.
-Disposal of the batteries will be an issue. Kinda negates the enviromental protecting thing gained from the mediocre fuel economy.
-Gutless. I like power, and I'm willing to pay for it. Give my a hybrid, 3/4 ton pickup that has as much or more power than I'm accustomed to, and I might be interested.

[Jim Becker]

Karl, trust me, one word that does not apply to either Toyota hybrid we own is "gutless". My Highlander Hybrid has more HP than the regular version and will squeal all four tires if you floor it. Torque is incredible. The Prius is also a jack rabbit if you need it to be...like getting out of our driveway without getting run over by a stone truck doing sixty in a forty zone. Safty is also top shelf on both vehicles and, proven to me when we had a major accident on the interstate in the HH in May of '06. I posted pictures of that here. The HH was pricy, but the Prius is quite reasonable. I'm not worried about service issues...the systems are proven at this point, at least with Toyota.

You do make a good point about battery disposal, but that's an unknown at this point and likely to be handled by the strong upswing in recycling programs growing in our battery infused society.

I do hope that a "real" hybrid solution comes to trucks like you prefer to drive. So far, the offerings have been lame in my mind.

[Mitchell Andrus]

All mostly valid, Karl. We've got a long way to go in technology - AND - a longer way to go in mind-set and expectations. The rest of the drivers on the planet doesn't get to 60 in 5 seconds in their little 1.8 liter sedans and seem to be doing just fine.

The REAL joke is the Smart Car. 2 passengers and only 45 mpg???? Holy cow, what a waste of space. A Civic hybrid hauls 4 plus luggage at about 50 mpg.

[Frank Hagan]

The batteries are nickle-metal hydride, and are recyclable. Here in California, I have a 10 year warranty on them (other areas are 8 years).

I routinely get more than 50 mpg in real world driving here in California with my 2006 Prius. I have two co-workers with SmartForTwo cars and they are not getting 45 mpg ... more like 38. But they paid half what I did for the Prius, so they are happy.

I paid $24,400 for my Prius and received a $3,150 tax credit (the credit is now expired). I also got stickers to allow me to drive in the car pool lanes with a single driver. I quit driving my truck, which was getting 17 mpg, and switched to a vehicle getting over 50, which helps on my 90 mile daily commute. LOML is driving the truck now to her job, 8 miles away. So it works for us.

My BIL tried to tell me my Prius wasn't good because I could have gotten a Corrolla for less than any possible fuel savings. We were standing next to his Viper at the time. Its very rare that people choose a car based on return on investment, but I did actually do a spreadsheet, comparing the mileage, purchase price, resale value, etc. That narrowed the choice down to three vehicles, the Corolla Matrix, the Prius and the small engine Camry. The difference in ride comfort and amenities for the price made the Prius an easy choice.

We're keeping the truck, though! Hard to tow a boat with the Prius, or bring home sheets of MDF.

[Karl Brogger]

I'm not talking power as in 0-60 times. I'm talking hooking up to a 20,000# trailer and not worrying. I've got a slightly hopped up 6spd diesel pickup, fast isn't a term I'm used to using with that, but I do have probably 300hp, and 700 ft/lbs torque at the ground, and I still get 20mpg!

Why don't they produce a diesel hybrids? Seems an obvious choice to me. Americans are retarded when it comes to diesel. Some sort of fear or stigma is attached to it. After owning a diesel pickup for the last few years I don't think I could go back to a gasser.

[Karl Brogger]

The REAL joke is the Smart Car. 2 passengers and only 45 mpg???? Holy cow, what a waste of space. A Civic hybrid hauls 4 plus luggage at about 50 mpg.

And a regular civic routinely gets in the mid 40's, and it doesn't need a expensive hybrid option to pull it off.

If it does for you, who am I to argue?

But! (there's always a "but") I've gone off on this tangent before. Enviromentalists make my skin crawl. Granted we don't need to be dumping mercury, arsenic, (insert deadly chemical/compound here), into our rivers. But the folks who are the extremists, or even Al Gore's followers are deranged. Half actually believe the filth they are spewing, the other half are just in it to take advatage of the situation economically. Me?, everytime I hear them I want to start a tire fire. A big one.

Start hording your incandescent bulbs now. The environmentalists want you to buy communist China made compact fluorescent bulbs. China, where they're knocking together a coal fired power plant once a week. Good thinking folks.

Our real problem isn't what we use as individuals. The problem resides in how much we consume as a population. There are way more of us than there should be. Technology in agriculture is the only reason we are able to support the numbers the way we do. The only reason we live as long as we do is a combination of improved medical care, and more importantly proper sanitation. Over population is the biggest problem. In 1850 there was less than a dozen cities with a population over 1,000,000. How many are there now?

[Jeff Monson]

You guys all have great points pro's and con's

Bottom line the hybirds do have higher initial cost, you have to put some miles on one before it will start to pay off. But I think the hybird technology is just starting to take off and we need people supporting the manufacturers to keep improving the technology. I applaud the people driving hybirds, they are supporting the future of technology.

I'm excitied for hybird and hydrogen based autos I think it will be the future of tomorrows commuter cars. For the guys driving a 4000lb pickup I think it will be awhile before you'll find huge mileage improvements.

I also dont worry about the big battery disposal argument, they already recycle lead acid batteries. You think they will take a 1500 dollar hybird battery put it in the dump??? Not likely.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Americans are retarded when it comes to diesel.

It isn't at every gas station + it costs more which scares people who don't do the deeper math.