Need Guidance......

[ross russo]

Hey ya'll,

Does anyone have any advice on how to get rid of the rough surfaces that tend to develop around the end grain when turning bowls, platters, etc? I guess What I am asking is... If I take a log and cut it length wise to get a bowl blank. After turning, it always seems that the areas where the end grain is, it tends to have texture no matter how much I sand. I have started with as course as 60 to 80 grit and worked my way up, I have tried my orbital palm sander while the piece is turning (which really doesn't work to well on the interior of bowls), I have tried hand sandin with the piece off of the lathe (which tends to work a little better but I can still feel the texture). This is driving me crazy. I keep my tools sharp. I have tried scrappers, gouges, skews.

Considering that I am still learning (most of which is self taught by trial and error), I figured it was time to ask some of the veterans.

THANK YOU in advance for any words of wisdom and experience.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ross,

End grain tear out can be a real bugger.

Sharp tools......extremely light cuts......some folks use wood conditioners on the wood before the final light cuts.........some folks use water....some use oils on the wood before the light cuts........it can be a real bugger!

[Alan Trout]

Ken is right it can be a real bugger. When I have been in really bad tear out that I could do nothing with I have soaked the area with thin CA let it dry and then take a really sharp tool and have always been able to get it out.

Good Luck

Alan

[Norm Zax]

Sharp as they are, tools may be doing nothing more than bending the fibers, which bounce right back. One solution is a wax paste, such as a DIY mixture of beeswax and mineral oil. Spread lightly on afflicted area and sand away. Others prefer a spot of sanding sealer. Most anything changing the fibers behaviour (thicken or stiffen) will work.
Dont let turning drive you crazy ... no matter what.

[Dave Bender]

very sharp tools and a coat of shellac or lacquer can help too.

[Judy Kingery]

Ross, an additional consideration to excellent recommendations already suggested here, you might consider experimenting with different woods as well. Some woods will more easily tear out on end grain than others. There have been several woods that I avoid due to their characteristics in general, i.e. easily torn end-grain (mulberry comes to mind) and then other woods I genuinely enjoy that seldom, if ever, tear out such as Mesquite and Osage Orange. Best to you, Jude

[Steve Schlumpf]

Ross - lots of good advice so far! You didn't say what kind of wood you are experiencing the problems with. Like Judy mentioned - some woods are going to give you fits no matter what you do - like poplar, willow - basically really soft woods. You have to either change the angle of your cut, change the fibers (adding water, wax, etc) or resort to sandpaper once the piece is totally dry. Like Ken mentioned - it's a bugger and something we all experience from time to time.

Let us know what works for you!

[Raymond Overman]

Along with everything else, look at your tool positioning. A light shear cut with a very sharp bowl gouge can eliminate what you're talking about. The bevel of the tool should be in the same plane as the wood which provides support for the fibers behind the cut.

Unfortunately, it's a show me type thing if you are not familiar with what I'm talking about. I'll try to take pictures and explain it better this evening.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Any of the above suggestion will work on tear out of end grain. I use a spray bottle and spritz it lightly with water or I use mineral oil. My last cuts are with a conventional bowl gouge. Mine happen to be P & N. I watched Mike Mahoney do this at a demo and after his final cut it was smooth. He lets us feel it before he did his final cut and after.

[David Walser]

Ross,

Lot's of good advice. In addition to what's already been suggested, make sure that you are cutting in the proper direction. As a general rule, in spindle turning we are taught to "cut down hill". That is, we cut from the larger diameter towards the smaller diameter. This allows the fibers being cut to be supported by the fibers beneath them and allows for a cleaner cut.

When turning the outside of a bowl, rather than cutting down hill, the fibers are better supported if we cut up hill -- from the foot of the bowl towards the rim. This is just a general rule with lots of exceptions. Following the rule, generally, results in cleaner cuts and less tear out of the end grain.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ross,

You might consider buying BIll Grumbines video "Turned Bowls Made Easy". In it he shows several different cuts that can be used to minimize tearout. Excellent video. I review it from time to time to help this old guy remember what to do.

[Kim Ford]

Ross,

All good suggestions, let me add another one. They say practice makes perfect and they sometimes know what they are talking about.

Find yourself a 4X8, doug fir or doug fir larch; whatever construction grade softwood your local lumber yard has. Bring it home and cut it into 8" lengths. Now one at a time mount this up on your lathe, between centers or faceplate, or whatever, and round them out. Use your bowl gouge to round some and your scraper to round others. Through each process stop a various times and observe how each tool cuts or scrapes and what it leaves behind as to the grain tear. There are different ways to present your bowl gouge in the rounding out stage which changes the type of cut you are making.

My suggestion is after round, hold the rpm's consistent at about 1000 and use each tool to make finishing cuts on the outside of the round. This is not what you would do if you were turning a real project, but what it does do is show you the results of how you are presenting the tool with the grind you have. You have a lot of wood here, practice.

Next, watch the shavings that come off of the tool with each variable, they tell no lies.

Work on your outside cuts, and then once you are comfortable start with you inside cuts.

Neither doug fir or any constuction grade softwood is very forgiving when turned in a cross grain enviroment. This is a very inexpensive way to really understand the priniciple, the rpm's and the presentation.

Just my 2 cents.

[Keith Burns]

A lot of good advise for sure. Everyone has tearout at some point. Sharp tools and presentation is most important. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is what tool you are using to sand with. What you need is a close quarters drill and a 2" sanding disc setup to power sand on the lathe. Typically this will make short work of correcting tearout.

[Barry Elder]

Ross, you are a prime candidate to be looking up www.woodturner.org and looking for the nearest Club. It will list a contact phone number so you can call and find out how to join. Woodturners are always eager to help someone learn more about woodturning. If you can connect with someone close by, you can shorten the learning curve a lot. When you explain your problem, you will find that a good first step is the proper way to sharpen your gouges. Then the end grain fuzz will be easier to manage. Good Luck!

[Skip Spaulding]

I have put bowls in microwave if turned green, then sanded. I just finished a 12 1/2"x4 1/2" cherry salad bowl. Put in microwave with turntable for 1 1/2 min. at 50% power then repeat 1 1/2 min. 0% power. If bowl remains hot I let cool more before zapping again. Seems to me that as moisture is extracted bowl does not heat up as much. YES YOU CAN OVER NUKE THEM!! I do multiple times and go by touch etc. then I rechuck and reverse lathe for sanding. I use drill 60 & 80 grits and switch to air driven sander for finer grits. I think someone on this site suggested that. My biggest problem with cracking comes from being greedy (or is that cheap) and not getting rid of enough pith. Make sure to mark bowl before removing from chuck, makes rechucking easier. Some light turning may be needed before sanding as shape does change as drying takes place. Good Luck!