New to the Forum and some ?'s on shop DC

[Mac McQuinn]

Hello Guys,
I'm new to the forum and a avid woodworker and sometime boatbuilder. Recently I retired and want to get a bit more serious with my woodworking and with my shop layout for dust collection. I've a small basement shop measuring 13' X 25'. Have the usual assortment of power tools, Jet contractor table saw, Jet 6" joiner, Hitachi slide compound mitre saw, homemade bandsaw, Delta bench planer, etc. Presently I have a Pennstate 1HP DC1B with the older 3 micron bags, a JDS 750 air cleaner and a older 6HP Craftsman vac with Hepa filter conversion.

The biggest problem seems to rest with sanding which I always seem to be doing.....and the compound mitre saw which produces a lot of dust for my small shop and equipment to handle.

I would be open to any suggestions on getting my dust level down to a minimum since my wife has asthma and I seem to react to some of the woods specifically white oak which I use for some of my furniture projects.

I've looked at the new Oneida Mini Gorilla although feel my present dust collector with a change to either a 1 micron cannister or bag set would be a better option for me for the money I have to spend. I've also looked at the Festool sanders in order to gain some additional control of loose particles floating around.

My wife's and my own health is too important to not do something constructive to control this problem. Plus it seems like I spend more time cleaning up than working presently and that's getting old.

Thanks in advance,
Mac

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Welcome Mac!

This is a much discussed subject here, and you will find some great info. I'd start with two things in your list. First, the 1hp collector is pretty small, and it may be limiting your potential for good dust collection. Second, the 3 micron bags have to go. They allow the most dangerous dust out, and just trap the realatively harmless bigger stuff.

I had a 1 hp Delta collector, and upgraded to a 3hp Oneida. There is really no similarity in the effectiveness. I too have breathing issues, and can appreciate your goals. You will not be sorry with an upgrade.

You mentioned sanding and your slider chop saw as culprets. I don't know much about sanding dust collection, I try to handplane or scrape everything to final finish, but the sliding miter saw is something that I have just recently dealt with. I built hood for my Makita, which works extreemely well. The key seems to be a bunch of airflow though, because you need such a large opening on the hood to fit around the saw.

Have a good evening,

[Don Bullock]

First, congratulations on your recent retirement. I retired in June and am in the process of setting up a woodworking shop at my new home.

For sanding with an electric sander I've virtually eliminated the dust by buying a Festool sander and CT 22 dust extractor. Yes, Festool products are expensive, but they do the job well. I plan eventually to use a downdraft table for hand sanding once I get fully established in my new shop.

I've seen many different SCMS stations with hoods to collect the sawdust. Amazon sells the Rousseau 4500 DownDrafter http://www.amazon.com/Rousseau-4500-...454127&sr=8-37 but you could make your own hood out of wood. Here's a thread here on Sawmill Creek about the DownDeafter with links to other threads as well. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=25328 One of the links is to a site showing the instillation of the DownDrafter and giving a "critique."

[Chuck Saunders]

For a good primer on dust collection, you can't beat Bill's work
http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

[Anthony Watson]

I can't offer much help with the miter saw dust collection, but I use a shop vac to collect the dust from my 5" Dewalt random orbit sander. I remove the little dust bag that comes with the sander, and use a reducing coupling to connect my Ridgid WD1450 shop vac to the dust port of the sander. Before I started using the vac, my shop would quickly turn into a cloud of dust after a few minutes of sanding. Now I can sand for hours with virtually no dust in the air.

You will need to add a "fine filtration" bag inside the shop vac. They have them for the Ridgid, Shop Vac brand, and others. Without the bag, the standard filter will clog up with fine dust in very short order.

For what it's worth, I tried the same approach with my 1-1/2HP dust collector, reducing the 4" line down to the 1-1/4" port of the sander. It didn't work very well at all. The shop vac does a much better job in this case, and is easier to move around as I'm working as well.

Oh, and I always lay a scrap piece of carpet padding on my workbench to sand my projects on. Without it I often found the underside of whatever I was sanding would be marred by vibrating against the rough workbench underneath.

Of course, the sander and shop vac running at the same time put out a lot of noise. So you'll need ear protection. I have a headphone radio my wife bought me for Christmas last year that kills the noise and helps pass the time while sanding.

Anthony

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Mac, I also am very sensitive to wood dust, and have a 1.5HP Oneida Component System Cyclone, upgraded to the large external filter.

I don't have a CMS, however I do have a Randon Orbital Sander which I hook up to the cyclone with the supplied adapter.

I open another blast gate downstream from the gate my RAS is hooked up to, and the dust collection is excellent.

My shop is in the basement of a townhouse, so dust is a priority.

My brother has an RAS and a CMS and even with 6 inch duct and a 2HP commercial cyclone, not everything is collected from those two machines. He has however remarked that the Oneida cyclone performance is on a completely different level than his previous bag type collectors.

I've considered a Fein vacuum for my sander, however the cyclone works well with my RAS, possibly because the RAS has a built in fan to blow the dust into a bag, hooking it up to the cyclone makes it even better.

Fein or Festool make some great tools that are designed for dust collection, as well as great vacuums to go with the tools. Their dust collection performance is far better than ordinary tools such as DeWalt. (Note, I'm not picking on DeWalt, it's the RAS I own, it's just that many tools aren't designed for excellent dust collection).

Regards, Rod.

[Mac McQuinn]

Welcome Mac!

This is a much discussed subject here, and you will find some great info. I'd start with two things in your list. First, the 1hp collector is pretty small, and it may be limiting your potential for good dust collection. Second, the 3 micron bags have to go. They allow the most dangerous dust out, and just trap the realatively harmless bigger stuff.

I had a 1 hp Delta collector, and upgraded to a 3hp Oneida. There is really no similarity in the effectiveness. I too have breathing issues, and can appreciate your goals. You will not be sorry with an upgrade.

You mentioned sanding and your slider chop saw as culprets. I don't know much about sanding dust collection, I try to handplane or scrape everything to final finish, but the sliding miter saw is something that I have just recently dealt with. I built hood for my Makita, which works extreemely well. The key seems to be a bunch of airflow though, because you need such a large opening on the hood to fit around the saw.

Have a good evening,

Steve,
Thanks for the tips, I know the 3 Micron bags are hurting performance and that's the first thing I'm going to address. I'm at my limits on power availability so 1.5HP is going to be my maximum powered AC. I thought about the Mini Gorilla 1.5HP unit which apparently has a system performance flow of 600 CFM. I'm not sure of the static pressure. My PSI bag collector seems to outperform it in airflow on paper by producing 850 CFM @ 6.5" Static pressure and with the addition of a 1 micron bag or perhaps a Wynn cannister filter the unit should catch the really fine particles more efficiently. I'm running (2) 10' lenghts of hose presently and could cut this to one which would help air flow a bit. The compound saw may be a little harder to seal up without compromising use of the tool although anything would be an improvement at this point.

Mac

[Mac McQuinn]

First, congratulations on your recent retirement. I retired in June and am in the process of setting up a woodworking shop at my new home.

For sanding with an electric sander I've virtually eliminated the dust by buying a Festool sander and CT 22 dust extractor. Yes, Festool products are expensive, but they do the job well. I plan eventually to use a downdraft table for hand sanding once I get fully established in my new shop.

I've seen many different SCMS stations with hoods to collect the sawdust. Amazon sells the Rousseau 4500 DownDrafter http://www.amazon.com/Rousseau-4500-...454127&sr=8-37 but you could make your own hood out of wood. Here's a thread here on Sawmill Creek about the DownDeafter with links to other threads as well. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=25328 One of the links is to a site showing the instillation of the DownDrafter and giving a "critique."

Dan,
Thanks for the attachments. Certainlly some interesting ideas there. Looks like some dust control projects are inline before starting that next big project, (my son & daughter-in-law would like a canoe). I have looked hard at the Festool products and even though their pricey, This might be my best bet on dust control during sanding. The downdfraft sanding table sounds great but I'm space challenged, Everything has to serve multi purposes in my shop or I'm stumbling over things too much.

Mac

[Mac McQuinn]

I can't offer much help with the miter saw dust collection, but I use a shop vac to collect the dust from my 5" Dewalt random orbit sander. I remove the little dust bag that comes with the sander, and use a reducing coupling to connect my Ridgid WD1450 shop vac to the dust port of the sander. Before I started using the vac, my shop would quickly turn into a cloud of dust after a few minutes of sanding. Now I can sand for hours with virtually no dust in the air.

You will need to add a "fine filtration" bag inside the shop vac. They have them for the Ridgid, Shop Vac brand, and others. Without the bag, the standard filter will clog up with fine dust in very short order.

For what it's worth, I tried the same approach with my 1-1/2HP dust collector, reducing the 4" line down to the 1-1/4" port of the sander. It didn't work very well at all. The shop vac does a much better job in this case, and is easier to move around as I'm working as well.

Oh, and I always lay a scrap piece of carpet padding on my workbench to sand my projects on. Without it I often found the underside of whatever I was sanding would be marred by vibrating against the rough workbench underneath.

Of course, the sander and shop vac running at the same time put out a lot of noise. So you'll need ear protection. I have a headphone radio my wife bought me for Christmas last year that kills the noise and helps pass the time while sanding.

Anthony

Anthony,
I also use a shop vac with hepa filter hooked up my Mikita Sander although my problem is I tend to do a lot of contour sanding in which The sander does not stay flat on the work surface, producing quite a bit of dust the vac misses. I wear a good mask although when finished the whole shop and steps leading up to the house are dust covered. the fine particle bag will help keep the filter clean, I'll have to pick one up. I also tried necking down the DC to 1-1/4" with same results and just collasping the air hose. I did put a muffler on my Vac and it helps quite a bit but I'd rather not hear it at all so wear muffs too.

Mac

[Mac McQuinn]

Hi Mac, I also am very sensitive to wood dust, and have a 1.5HP Oneida Component System Cyclone, upgraded to the large external filter.

I don't have a CMS, however I do have a Randon Orbital Sander which I hook up to the cyclone with the supplied adapter.

I open another blast gate downstream from the gate my RAS is hooked up to, and the dust collection is excellent.

My shop is in the basement of a townhouse, so dust is a priority.

My brother has an RAS and a CMS and even with 6 inch duct and a 2HP commercial cyclone, not everything is collected from those two machines. He has however remarked that the Oneida cyclone performance is on a completely different level than his previous bag type collectors.

I've considered a Fein vacuum for my sander, however the cyclone works well with my RAS, possibly because the RAS has a built in fan to blow the dust into a bag, hooking it up to the cyclone makes it even better.

Fein or Festool make some great tools that are designed for dust collection, as well as great vacuums to go with the tools. Their dust collection performance is far better than ordinary tools such as DeWalt. (Note, I'm not picking on DeWalt, it's the RAS I own, it's just that many tools aren't designed for excellent dust collection).

Regards, Rod.

Rod,
I 'm not up to speed yet on the abbreviations so please bear with me...RAS? Do you feel the smaller 1.5HP cyclone systems outperform the single stage bag systems of like HP?

Thanks,
Mac

[Bill Arnold]

Here's a post I did a while back on my CMS dust collection:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost...78&postcount=5

[Anthony Watson]

Mac,

I don't do a lot of sanding on contoured surfaces, but what little I have done doesn't seem to leave behind any significant dust. As long as the wood is within an inch or so of the sander, the vac usually sucks the dust in through the holes in the sanding disk. In fact, I've been known to just hold the sander over my workbench to pick up dust I'm too lazy to unhook the hose for.

For your situation, the only other solutions I could think of would be a spouse to follow behind you with a shop vac nozzle , or to buy/build some kind of downdraft table.

Anthony

[Mac McQuinn]

Here's a post I did a while back on my CMS dust collection:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost...78&postcount=5

Thanks Bill, looks like something worth pursuing

Mac

[Bill Arnold]

Thanks Bill, looks like something worth pursuing

Mac

Mac,

If you have the space to set up something like I did, it works great. I had a 4" flex hose connected to it and it worked fine. I recently added to my DC duct system and ran a 5" pipe directly to it. Now, when I open only the blast gate to the CMS, I can feel the air moving around me when I'm standing at the saw.