Thoughts on my dovetail saw

[Brian J. Williams]

A couple of months back, I bought two Paragon saws- a dovetail saw and a tenon saw. Relatively cheap (less than $120 for the both of them), but there were a couple of issues. First, the handles didn't fit my hands; they were way too small. So, I built a couple of new handles (Gramercy pattern) and that solved that issue. The next issue was how they were sharpened. The dovetail saw in particular, although new, seemed to cut only as well as an old Stanley gent's saw I'd been using. After reading an article by Chris Schwarz on this guy from Wisconsin (Mark Harrell of Technoprimitives), I sent the dovetail saw off to him for sharpening. Man, can that guy sharpen a saw. Night and day difference.

(Actually getting to my point here......)

When I consider the original cost of the dovetail saw, the very reasonable cost to get it sharpened correctly, and my time to build the new handles, AND from a purely economic standpoint, I'd have been better off just buying one of the Wenzloff, LN (or one of the NEW??) LV dovetail saws. Don't get me wrong, making the new saw handles was good experience. But, in the end, I'd recommend that if you're in the market for a new saw, and you don't want to take the time to fettle/otherwise modify the saw to fit you, bite the bullet and buy a good one right from the get go. (I realize the requisite and obviously applicable "penny wise and pound foolish" discussions will follow.)

Brian

[Luke Townsley]

I would tend to be of the same mindset, but for different reasons.

First of all, I wouldn't count my time making the handle. I would just consider the cost of the wood and possibly any special tooling I had to buy to make it. After all, I am a hobby woodworker. This is supposed to be what I do for fun.

As far as sharpening, I can do that myself although I haven't really learned to enjoy it unless I am in just the right frame of mind. Even if I do it myself, it is possible to wear through a file or even two on a bad saw.

As far as the handle not fitting, that can happen even with a new saw if you haven't tried it first.

However, many of us who are buying used saws are doing it at a well-known online auction site. The problem is that when you buy a saw "sight unseen" from a seller of unknown reputation, it is pretty much impossible to be sure what you are getting. It is easy to spend $60 on a saw and then realize that it requires some advanced work or is in someway deficient for your needs in a significant way.

If you buy a new saw from a reputable dealer, you can sidestep the uncertainty of the saws condition.

I suspect that really this discussion is pretty much moot for most woodworkers who have a decent start on their tool collection. There are simply some of us who prefer new tools and others who prefer old tools. As you have noted, the price factor isn't always that significant.

Of course, there are always those special cases when you find a great old saw for nothing at a sale or those who don't have access to many tools except online and who prefer the certainty of new tools to the uncertainty of online auctions.

Also significant is the fact that one of the best ways to really understand what makes a saw "tick" is to rehabilitate a few yourself and use them awhile in a variety of conditions.

Personally, I have rehabilitated a few and have decided that new saws are a better choice for me. I may rehabilitate some other saws in the future, but it isn't a job I really enjoy, and I actually prefer new tools if they are of good quality.

[Alan DuBoff]

Possibly you might have been better, depends on what you want to do, it's all relative.

What would you do when your saw is not sharp anymore? You will use your saw, right? All saws will need to be sharpened. Will you continue to send your saw out to be sharpened for you? If so, that could be as costly as buying new throw away Japanese saws, IMO.

Why not start learning how to sharpen your own saw, so that you don't need to send it out? With that skill you can go buy a $5 garage sale saw, sharpen it up and be amazed as well.

If you don't use your saws it is all moot, then it doesn't really matter if it's sharp or not.

I hate to see people going out buying a bunch of saws and sending them all off to get sharpened, only NOT to use them. That happens all the time, far too often. How many people do you think have gone out and purchased a "Nest Of Saws" in the past year? I bet some at least...*sigh*

You have this saw now, use it. It is sharp, that's exactly how you want it when you use it. I always try to sharpen my saws when I use them. Just like a hand plane or chisel, a saw needs to be sharpened also. I can't justify sending my saws out every time I want to use one, so I learned how to sharpen them myself.

[Jim Koepke]

Have to agree with Alan.

One of the most important aspects of woodworking is to know when and how to sharpen one's tools.

It is my understanding that in the old days, the shop apprentice was taught to sharpen tools before being trained to use the tools.

I could not saw to a line or keep the saw straight until after teaching my self, with help from the internet, how to sharpen my saws. That is when it was discovered that it was not me, it was a poorly sharpened saws. Also it was learned that the sawyer isn't what keeps the saw going straight so much as it is a properly sharpened saw that will stay on track.

This is the site that got me started in better understanding of saws, how they work and how to keep them working.

http://www.vintagesaws.com/

Good luck,

jim

[Luke Townsley]

I misread the original post. Brian, I thought you were talking about old saws when actually, you mentioned buying new saws.

Ill fitting handles and poor sharpening jobs seem to be hallmarks of cheaper saws. As long as the blade is high quality, straight, tensioned if necessary or with the right kind of backing, you can either glue pieces to the handle and file it down to make the handle you want, or make a new handle. With a good sharpening, it can be a pretty decent saw.

Of course, if you are going to that much trouble, you should probably just think about making your saw from scratch.

If you really use a hand saw, then yes, the better tools are probably worth the money. If not, then you probably don't need a saw anyway.

[Alan DuBoff]

This is the site that got me started in better understanding of saws, how they work and how to keep them working.

http://www.vintagesaws.com/

I learned from vintage saws originally also, but Tom Law's video was a tremendous help to me.

This is the document I often point people to on Vintage Saws.

http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/primer/sharp.html

Also, check out these videos by Chris Gochnour, the first link is good for folks to know what type of tools they need.

A Tool Kit for Sharpening Handsaws:
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworki....aspx?id=24977

Sharpening a Dovetail Saw:
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworki....aspx?id=24976