Ideal thickness for Maple Workbench Top

[Casey Gooding]

To quote the Schwarz "Always overbuild your workbench". Follow this advise and you won't go wrong.

[Marcus Ward]

I guess you haven't read schwarz's book. I'm not going to go into ufficient detail to explain it as it would be a paraphrasing of the book.

Simple fixtures to clamp things flush is more complicated than just building it properly the first time and not having to build fixtures.

I don't get this. Not good enough for what? All our bodies and mind work differently. I can think of simple fixtures that would allow you to clamp boards to benches that don't have legs flush. Sometimes I think we make things too complicated, I am guilty of this too.

[John Schreiber]

I don't get this. Not good enough for what? All our bodies and mind work differently. I can think of simple fixtures that would allow you to clamp boards to benches that don't have legs flush. Sometimes I think we make things too complicated, I am guilty of this too.

I know we must sound like we have all been drinking Chris Schwarz's koolaid, but I've been planning a new bench for a long time and had done a bunch of drawings, but when I read Chris's book a lot of my ideas changed.

For each procedure I do on my current (soon to be old) bench, I try to visualize how I would do it with various bench designs. Chris's Ruobo style seems to me to solve many problems before they start. One of his philosophies seems to me to make your bench as simple as possible, but make it work for as many tasks as possible without having to add any additional gizmos or jigs. And make it stout. Or stouter.

[Alan DuBoff]

If you don't have Chris Schwarz's book, not to fret, you can watch the video that Al Navas took at WIA, it is pretty much the same information he gives in his book. In fact, I probably would have felt like I got nothing from the session because it is pretty much what he outlines in his book.

Part 1

Part 2

[Yuchol Kim]

I guess you haven't read schwarz's book. I'm not going to go into ufficient detail to explain it as it would be a paraphrasing of the book.

Simple fixtures to clamp things flush is more complicated than just building it properly the first time and not having to build fixtures.

I own this book and have read it many times. Keep in mind, even though Schwarz is an expert woodworker, his opinions and what he said in his book represent are just that, one man's opinion. Just because he thinks having a flush leg is a good idea, doesn't make others "not good enough". Thank you.

[Marcus Ward]

I think perhaps you might want to read the book again. He makes the point that the benches of old, used by guys who used handtools for a living, had legs flush with the front. It's not like he invented this idea.

[Alan DuBoff]

I own this book and have read it many times. Keep in mind, even though Schwarz is an expert woodworker, his opinions and what he said in his book represent are just that, one man's opinion. Just because he thinks having a flush leg is a good idea, doesn't make others "not good enough". Thank you.

I completely agree with you, although his opinion is pretty spot on for folks that work with hand tools. This doesn't mean that much great work hasn't been done on benches that do not have flush legs, far from it.

Sometimes folks put a bit too much weight in one person's view, and this is a case where that is easy to happen.

Using a bench that doesn't have legs flush with the front hasn't prevented folks like Frank Klausz from creating some great work.

That said, I had most of my cut list ready to build the workbench by Lon Schleining from FWW #167, when Schwarz created his Holtzappfel style bench. I saw that bench, redesigned mine to be similar, with my own modifications, and ended up with my workbench I use now. Chris Schwarz doesn't recommend folks use a pattern maker's vise either, but I used one on my bench.

As you say, one man's opinion is just that, one man's opinion.

[Steven DeMars]

Of the 4 book's I checked out of the library last weekend, I rated Schwartz's book 3 of 4 and actually returned it last night. I check it out agin and re-read it, but I thought there were two toehrs that were more useful. I am still at work and will post the other 2 books tonight.

You have a library with books published after the mid-sixties . . . ?

Steve

[Alan DuBoff]

Of the 4 book's I checked out of the library last weekend, I rated Schwartz's book 3 of 4 and actually returned it last night. I check it out agin and re-read it, but I thought there were two toehrs that were more useful. I am still at work and will post the other 2 books tonight.

I still find it quite amazing that you were able to find this new print in your local library, lucky for you.

But after reading your other post Lyndon, where you just bought your first hand plane, I have to ponder how you know what you would need for working with hand tools?

Probably not much I can help you with if Chris Schwarz's book couldn't help you out.

[David Keller NC]

"I own this book and have read it many times. Keep in mind, even though Schwarz is an expert woodworker, his opinions and what he said in his book represent are just that, one man's opinion. Just because he thinks having a flush leg is a good idea, doesn't make others "not good enough"."

Actually, this is incorrect. While there's no doubt (and I wouldn't argue) that Chris' book contains a heavy dose of one man's analysis and opinions, the designs presented in the book and the reasons for the way they're built are the result of thousands upon thousands of woodworkers, and several hundred years of the evolution of benches to suit handwork.

The flush legs are just one example. If, for example, you surface the edges of all of your boards on a power jointer, and you don't build cabinet doors a touch too big and then plane them to fit, flush legs will be unnecessary. However, if one's intent is to use hand tools to 4-square wood, building the legs flush with the front of the bench is essential, as is either a board jack, a sliding board jack, a sliding leg vise, or a substitute arrangement (Bob Lang's dove-tailed extra stretcher with dog holes is one example of a suitable substitute).

I'm not familiar enough with Franz Klaus' methods of working to know, but there's an excellent chance that he uses power tools to 4-square wood, as I do know his focus is entirely on the "get 'er done" attitude, and it's hard to argue that a big power jointer isn't going to be as efficient as a sharp hand plane.

But the single most important point Chris makes in his book that is an over-arching concept is that a correctly-designed bench makes handwork possible, and all work easier. The second most important point he makes is in the "Invent Nothing" chapter - because a bench is a very simple, though critically important tool, almost anything you can imagine has been tried before. Very, very few of those trials have made it into French, German, or English bench traditions, and there's good reason for that.

When one looks at a "continental design" bench like the ones that are in countless plans that have been published over and over again (and very much like the Taunton plands that Lyndon linked to), and examine their history, one finds that they are largely based on commercial antecedents from the early 20th century - and those antecedents were designed to be manufacturable in factories and shipped across the country. This is one big reason for the "sled-trestle leg" support that results in the legs not being flush with the front of the bench - it makes breaking down the bench to be shipped possible and inexpensive. It has little to do with the needs of the hand-tool worker.

[Lyndon Graham]

You have a library with books published after the mid-sixties . . . ?

Steve

and they tax the hell out of me for it, I would rather buy the books and have less taxes

[Yuchol Kim]

But the single most important point Chris makes in his book that is an over-arching concept is that a correctly-designed bench makes handwork possible, and all work easier.

Correctly designed bench (even a perfectly designed bench for that matter) is one that fits the user. That's all I am saying. People work differently, and need different tools to get the same task done. My one and only disagreement on this thread is that one should not make statement so general that "....is not good enough". Remember, lots of newcomers read this forum and I think the best approach is to share pros and cons of different design rather than "build this because it's the best".

[Marcus Ward]

I didn't say anything was the best, I just said that one wasn't good enough.

Yes, lots of newcomers come here, it's important that they don't learn any ridiculous ideas from the powertool users that sneak in here from time to time.

[John Schreiber]

You have a library with books published after the mid-sixties . . . ?

When Chris's book came out, I asked the library to buy a copy. They did and called me when it came in so I got to read it first. Now they have two copies in their collection and both are almost always checked out. Rather than me having a copy on my shelf, dozens of people are benefiting from it.

I own few books, but I go to the library about once a week.

[Bill Fleming]

I am just about finished (all but the tool tray) building a modified version of the 21st Century Workbench. It is to the point that I can use it for limited purposes, and I can say the following from fresh experience:

1. I am a fan of biscuits for many applications, but they really won't help align the top. I tried biscuits on the first laminations that I did, and it became an exercise in frustration. I then built a simple jig that used dowels to align the laminations for the the balance of the top, and it worked much better. If I had it to do over (and more patience), I would have built panel clamps and used them.

2. I put the individual slabs (11" and 13" wide in my case) through a lunch box planer. The slabs came out very flat. However, this is by no means a one man job, and I needed extra infeed and outfeed support as well as the assistance of my son to get it done. Without this, I would not have been able to run the slabs through the planer. Using a lunch box planer for slabs of this size was unnerving, if not scary. The process of setting up the extra support mechanims and flattening both sides of the bench using a lunchbox planer took over two hours, which is roughly the amount of time it would have taken with handplanes. If I had it to do over, and had decent planes and a decent platform to work from, I would have used handplanes.

3. I would not buy plans, or even follow the plans of others. Read books on the subject, and design something that fits you and your style of work. I planned this project for months, and was about to get started when Bob Lange's bench design was revealed. I liked everything about it other than it was too long for my space, too narrow and too low. The wood I already had didn't fit his plans exactly, so I modified his ideas to fit my space, my body and the material on hand. If I had followed his plans religiously, I would have been disappointed in the end result.

4. Be prepared to make mistakes and re-do those portions of the bench that don't come out to your liking. My old bench was too high, but I wasn't sure how much lower the new one needed to be. So I made the base first, mocked up a top and messed around with it. I recall that Lange recommends making the tops first, but that wouldn't have worked in my case, since I needed the base to use as a flat, level reference for gluing up the top. I ended up changing the height recommended by others for someone my size, and what I have now is wonderful, at least to me.

Good luck.

Hi Tom

Just curious - what height did you set for your bench and how does this relate to your height?

Thx Bill