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Thread: Ideal thickness for Maple Workbench Top

  1. #61
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    Okay, I'll toss in my zwei pfennig here.

    First, I've got to agree with most folks, get Schwarz's book. It is illuminating to say the least, in large part because it really focuses on analysing what a workbench is designed to do, and how to evaluate whether a particular design or feature meets its functional goals. I've likely read most of the same workbench books you've read, and Schwarz's is IMHO the best of the lot as far as approaching the workbench as a tool goes.

    I have a basic bench, built from a design in IIRC Sam Allen's book, with a second generation top. My first top was a 36" wide solid core door on a four foot long by 2' wide base. It had some real advantages, namely pretty much anything I wanted to assemble would fit on it, I had two sides I could work on when I wanted to, and I could easily stash my shop vac under the overhang. It also had some real drawbacks, mostly related to the base to top interface. I did not have a flush front, which started to haunt me when I began trying to do edge work. The back jaw of the vise did not set flush with the front edge of the top. The long overhang on the end ended up sagging, since the top was solid particle board core. The "apron" effect of having a 1.5" top sitting on a stretcher would cause me no end of grief when clamping things.

    I tossed that top when I moved, and purchased a ready made solid maple top from Jorgensen when I got my shop out of storage. It is better, but I still have the "apron" effect. The vise is now mortised back.

    What I've learned, having worked with two incarnations of my bench, as well as plenty of time with workmutts, is that Schwarz's book managed to distill my dissatisfaction with my bench, allowing me to critically analyze it and aim for improvements. I had been working on a new design, and have decided to make a few key changes. My new bench will have a thicker top so I can ditch the stretchers, 3"-4" thick. The only downside to the thicker top is I'll have to bulk up my arsenal of 12" Mini QuickGrips as the dozen 6" ones will be much more limited. It will be 7', maybe even 8' long, although I will go for 24"-30" wide. The width is because I don't put my bench against a wall, but much prefer to have access all around, and I work on all sides. No tool tray, because I have a bench brush hanging on a nail right behind me. I was planning on drawers, but now if I do have 'em, they will be a slip-in case, rather than integral to the structure. I will have a sliding jack or some such. I'm still undecided on the matter of vises, aside from the fact that I won't have a tail vise. Having finally broken down and purchased the Veritas Hold Down I can only say "man, was I an idjit for waiting so long on this one!"

    The key thing though is now, I evaluate every design feature from the perspective of "how will this address some of the woodworking challenges I have faced and will likely face?"

    I am a thoroughly hybrid NeanderNorm. I've cut mortises with routers, with hollow chisel attachments, with the drill press, with a handheld drill, and with chisels. I plane with both my lunchbox planer and with an assortment of handplanes. I've yet to cut any dovetails by hand, but do all sorts of other things, including airbrushing at my bench. My drill/driver is my friend, but so are my bench stops. I want a bench that is unmoving except when me and three or four Mr. Universe contenders persuade it otherwise, because I've had too many "bad things" happen when the workbench goes skittering out from under a workpiece.

    Think through the work you'll be doing on the bench as best as you can, and the tools you'll be doing it with. Finally, remember that if Bench v 1.0 isn't exactly what you want, it can always serve as an assembly table after Bench v 2.0 comes along.
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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndon Graham View Post
    . . . Even though this project could cost me >$1000 if I screw it up . . .
    Don't worry too much. It can't really cost that much money. Even a total screw up will still leave you with the vises and any other hardware you bought. And anything less than a total screw up still leaves you with a bench which works very well, but which might have some ugly spots or features you don't want.

    Also, I've never heard of any store-bought workbench with the mass necessary for hand tool work. (Although I heard that Lie Nielsen was going to offer a Ruobo - fear the cost - even more, fear the shipping cost.)
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  3. #63
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    "Even though this project could cost me >$1000 if I screw it up, I have plans to build things with worse ramifications."

    Lyndon - assuming you're not calculating for your time involved (I realize that's not free, it's just difficult to put a price on), you shouldn't spend anywhere close to this. If so, you're really paying way too much for wood. The vises, of course, are removable and can be re-installed on another bench if you're not pleased with the outcome, so you're not out anything there. Worst comes to worst, you could sell a vise you didn't like for 75% of what you paid for it.

    One of the things in Chris' book that's worth paying attention to is to use reasonably-priced materials. You've already noted that you're going to use "construction lumber" for the base. I'm not sure what species that is where you're from, but you might want to consider using it for the top as well. Chris makes convincing arguments for the use of southern yellow pine in his locale, but mentions that there are other suitable species in different parts of the country. On the West Coast, douglas fir might be the best choice.

    The bench Chris built with SYP, the Roubo, is still in use 3 years later, which says something for someone that's built so many benches.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Keller NC View Post
    "Even though this project could cost me >$1000 if I screw it up, I have plans to build things with worse ramifications."

    Lyndon - assuming you're not calculating for your time involved (I realize that's not free, it's just difficult to put a price on), you shouldn't spend anywhere close to this. ...

    On the West Coast, douglas fir might be the best choice.
    Twin screw Vice: $225
    Front Vice: $80
    Dog legs: $80
    Just the Deck: 75" x 26" x 4" assuming a 30% waste rate= 77 board feet. At $6.7 for Maple = $518.
    Sub-Structure from construction lumber < $100

    No Southern Pine here. Fir had crossed my mind, but I want to do it right. Purple Heart is actually $5 per board foot and being from LSU I love the color purple, but the idea of a dark bench is just not right. Patton once said, "I hate paying for the same real estate (in blood) twice".

  5. #65
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    Hmm - Not sure what you're describing as "dog legs" - do you mean "bench dogs"? The vises don't count on the cost of screwing something up (unless you damage them somehow, but that'd be hard to do).

    But - you're really paying a lot for maple. Here, utility maple is around $3 a b.f. for 8/4, though of course figured maple can run up to $20 b.f.

    If you haven't bought it yet, I'd reconsider on using maple, at least from the source you're quoting. Here's a couple of alternatives - look up some guys that have Woodmizer sawmills in your area. Most of these small operators will saw to your specifications, and the wood is a whole lot cheaper - many of them in my area have air-dried stock ready to go.
    Second alternative - seriously consider using doug fir or another common softwood species from your area; there's nothing wrong with using wood like this, and it will be MUCH easier to keep your bench flat - hand-planing really hard wood is a real drag.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Keller NC View Post
    Hmm - Not sure what you're describing as "dog legs" - do you mean "bench dogs"? The vises don't count on the cost of screwing something up (unless you damage them somehow, but that'd be hard to do).

    But - you're really paying a lot for maple. Here, utility maple is around $3 a b.f. for 8/4, though of course figured maple can run up to $20 b.f.

    If you haven't bought it yet, I'd reconsider on using maple, at least from the source you're quoting.
    You do have me thinking. One thing I am considering is Western Maple.
    Here is the comparison


    Modulus (Mpa) Hardness (N) Specific Gravity
    Hard Maple 12,600 6,400 0.63
    W. Maple 10,000 3,800 0.48
    D. Fir 12,600 2,900 0.50
    S Pine 13,700 3,900 0.59

    I can see why S Pine works. Thoughts on Fir and W Maple?

  7. #67
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    Just about any local cheap hardwood will make a fine bench. I think folks agonize over the wood too much. Some guy on here posted an "endgrain" plywood top! I thought it was very cool.

    Keep a lookout on craigslist to find some local ~100 bf lots of hardwood and seriously consider it. I picked up ~120 bf of some rough maple down here (dunno what *kind* of maple) for $4/bf. It was 10/4, 10" wide, 10' long. One day it might be a bench but I'm not sure.
    Wood: a fickle medium....

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  8. #68
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    S outhern Pine

    I found a source at S Pine. Grade D at $4.50 a board foot. Grade D means knotty as hell and I would have to order it sight unseen in the form of a 2x12.

    I am leaning against it do the the sight unseen part. It could show up bowed, twisted, etc
    Last edited by Lyndon Graham; 12-16-2008 at 12:26 PM.

  9. #69
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    Lyndon - that's a bad deal on SYP - give it a pass. If worst came to worse, you could have SYP shipped to you across the country for less than that, and have FAS graded stuff to boot.

    DON'T buy "hard maple" just because it's labeled that - it's not worth it. If you really, really want maple for a benchtop, you might consider giving Steve Wall of Wall lumber a call. It's a long way to ship it, but you still might come out ahead considering you'll need 100 b.f. or more (you might consider buying more - maple's always good to have around to use as a primary/secondary wood, shelving, jigs, etc...). You should be shooting for bench material that's about $2-$3 a b.f., maximum. I'm not familiar with your area, but I'd think you could get B and better douglas fir for that, and at a 4" thick top, you will never notice any flexing.

    And don't dismiss finding some wood on Craig's list or through the WoodMizer network (you can look up owners at the Woodmizer site). A little bit of legwork might save you several hundred dollars.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndon Graham View Post
    I found a source at S Pine.
    Why would you use that on the west coast? We use douglas fir for dimensional lumber.
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan DuBoff View Post
    Why would you use that on the west coast? We use douglas fir for dimensional lumber.
    I am going to give S Pine a pass because of the $ and the fact I can't see it before I buy it.

    But the reason S Pine is better than Fir is the modulus and hardness (see above)

  12. #72
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    Douglas Fir should work fine for a bench. Again referring to Christopher Schwarz, he actually recommends Douglas Fir in areas where SYP isn't available. Hardness isn't the most important part for a workbench, but stiffness. You want the wood to remain stiff over long spans. On page 15 of Schwarz's book, he has a table for the stiffness value of various woods. Of the woods listed, SYP is third highest for stiffness. Hickory is the highest. Between the two? Douglas Fir. This table is actually from the book Understanding Wood by R. Bruce Hoadley.

    Hardness of a wood may make the top more damage resitant, but you will eventually have to reflatten it regardless of what you make it out of. A Douglas Fir bench will be easy to flatten and cheap to make.

    Just something to keep in mind.

    Tom
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Knighton View Post
    Douglas Fir should work fine for a bench. Again referring to Christopher Schwarz, he actually recommends Douglas Fir in areas where SYP isn't available. Hardness isn't the most important part for a workbench, but stiffness. You want the wood to remain stiff over long spans. On page 15 of Schwarz's book, he has a table for the stiffness value of various woods. Of the woods listed, SYP is third highest for stiffness. Hickory is the highest. Between the two? Douglas Fir. This table is actually from the book Understanding Wood by R. Bruce Hoadley.

    Hardness of a wood may make the top more damage resitant, but you will eventually have to reflatten it regardless of what you make it out of. A Douglas Fir bench will be easy to flatten and cheap to make.

    Just something to keep in mind.

    Tom
    Looks like Fir it is, thanks

  14. #74
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    That should definitely save you a lot!

    Tom
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Knighton View Post
    That should definitely save you a lot!

    Tom
    Yup, I can do the entire top for less than $100 (versus > $500 for Maple).

    Having said that, here is what I found at 3 lumber yards.

    I can get Kiln dried fir but it is actually Western Hemlock or Hem-Fir. This wood has a very low stiffness (20% less than D Fir) and is soft (1/2 as hard as D Fir) So this is probably not acceptable

    So Surface Dries D Fir it is.

    Now maybe I can afford a #7 joining plane with the difference

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