Modern Day Mortise Gauge

[Charles Brown]

Or tenon gauge as someone in previous post has reflected.

I'm in the market for a new mortise gauge. I use the regular wheel marking gauge from Vertias for most of my layout work and really enjoy that tool. However, I find myself cutting mortises (or is the plural mortii?) by hand in small batches. I would like a new mortise gauge for that task. I need it to mark the reciprocal tenon as well.

I've used the inexpensive pin varieties and have had mixed results with that choice (maybe I'm missing a better manufacturer of these style of tools?). I like the wheel cutters on the Vertias gauges but am unsure about the new double head marking gauge they offer (seems like two cutters in-line would be more efficient).

For what it's worth, I'm a fan of the way Paul Sellers and Rob Cosman work but am not married to their methods.

Any help? Suggestions? Recommendations?

[Tony Wilkins]

I haven't tried them on my Titemark but I know that the setup for mortise marking is different than the double arm on the Veritas. It involves separate wheels (or on smaller mortises a fixed double wheel) that are on the same post. Don't know if that would work better for you but it is different than the Veritas.

[Paul Saffold]

Charles,
I use a home made one with a knife from a jigsaw blade, or a wheel style, but for tenons and mortices I use the Crown one with pins. It does help to sharpen the pins. I also like the fellers you mentioned, but I like lots if others, too. I learn from a lot of the individual blogs that craftsmen and craftswomen have available. There is a lot of talent out there and many are very sharing of their knowledge through the web. Same with this forum, too.
Paul

[Andrae Covington]

Your experiences sound similar to mine. I use a Veritas wheel gauge for most tasks. I was not happy with the traditional pin-style mortise gauge I had bought. As Paul Saffold said, it helps to sharpen the pins, but I still didn't like the fact that I couldn't see what I was doing. So I bought the Veritas dual wheel gauge. I love most of the stuff I buy from LV, but I kind of regret buying it: I didn't think the process through and only discovered after I bought it that there's no practical way to mark both sides in one pass, durrr. It's a fine gauge, and I use it for laying out more than just mortises, but for all the fussiness of the thing I could have just bought another single wheel gauge and used one for each side. I've thought about buying the mortise heads they sell that fit onto the shaft of the regular wheel gauges. But that involves fiddling with an allen wrench... if I were to go that route, I would buy another single-shaft wheel gauge and the mortise heads, and dedicate it to that task, probably usually set to match my 1/4" mortise chisel.

[Jim Koepke]

This is a tricky one because so much depends on the method one uses to make a mortise.

If a mortise is to be chopped it out with a chisel, then there could be a problem of the set wheel attachments do not match your chisel exactly. That is why my preference is for a dual pin gauge.

Mine is an old one that seems to do what is required. It doesn't leave as clean a line as a modern wheel gauge, but it is what I have.

If one drills out most of the waste then another method might work better.

Using two separate gauges to mark a surface sounds like something open to error.

jtk

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

The last few batches I've done, I've only been marking one side of my mortises, and letting the chisel width define the other side.

I've also got the LV gauge, but for the longest time, I used a gauge like this:

http://pfollansbee.wordpress.com/201...and-some-mail/

since I was really only using one mortise chisel, this worked quite well.

I've also quite often just made a mark with my chisel, and then used my single gauge to run a line perpendicular and intersecting with the mark the chisel made. This seems less finicky to me than trying to set a double gauge the width of my chisel.

[Russell Sansom]

I like the Titemark, I don't know the veritas for comparison because I haven't felt the need for a different one. I think many of us do like it. For me, the gauge I choose depends on the wood and the size of the mortises. Some woods prefer the wheels, some prefer the pins. And once in a while a given wood prefers a square and a knife. All of them are prone to their specific errors.

[Adam Cruea]

I've got the dual-wheel gauge.

Yeah, inline cutting heads would probably be better. The issue I run into with the Veritas gauge is that one wheel *always* pops loose when marking the mortise depending on which way you cut with the gauge. Also, it can be a pain to get into corners (for things like chairs or tables) because the head on it is quite wide (which is good, IMHO, because you don't have to worry about an unstraight line).

Overall, it's not a bad tool at all. You've got the Titemark, which looks pretty good. Little pricey, though. The Veritas is about 2/3 of the price of the Titemark, and functions perfectly fine for me with only minor annoyance (very minor).

The thing is, with the Titemark, you need to have an allen wrench handy to fiddle with the wheels. The Veritas has thumb screws. For me, worrying about loosing one less thing in the mess of a workshop is a good thing. It also goes to say that they both do dual-duty as a single mark or dual mark tool. . .the Veritas, IMHO, just seems to do it a little easier.

[Charles Brown]

I didn't think the process through and only discovered after I bought it that there's no practical way to mark both sides in one pass

This was one of the features that I identified as being a problem. I want the gauge to be able to mark both sides in one pass.

I would get the another of the Vertias marking gauges if you could buy the secondary head to turn it into a mortise gauge but I can't find them on their online site anymore. Maybe they discontinued that product when they developed the dual marking gauge because of the redundancy? My only complaint with the wheel style marking gauges is that because of the way I operate the tool with my left hand (I'm left handed), the set screw that holds the wheel will periodically work itself loose. Such is the cross we leftys must bear in life; we seemed to be made to suffer. It's our lot in life.

I guess I could get one with the pins but was discouraged after using a friend's Crown mortise gauge as I thought it was a little crude in its fit, finish, and adjustment (much like using an Anant plane vs a Lie-Nielsen). Is there a new mortise gauge I could buy that works straight out of the box without those refinements?

I'm happy to make the pin style gauge work, I just want one I don't have to fettle with and although it seems like a fun task, I don't think I'm interested in making my own homemade solution. I'd rather buy one or two quality examples off the shelf and get to work. Are there any pin style gauges that fit that description?

[Derek Cohen]

All the mortices gauges work well if used appropriately. For example, the the LV double wheel gauge requires that each wheel is used independently of each other. Gauges with pins benefit hugely when the pins are converted to knives (by grinding).

If you are doing multiple mortices, get this one ..



If you are motivated enough, you could make a dedicated fixed gauge for each mortice chisel (I have not been, and so I have a couple of variable gauges). Chisel widths vary, even when they are all marked, say, 1/4" and so I do not have a fixed gauge for this reason as well.

My preference is for a Kinshiro. Below is a modern version (the larger one) and a vintage ..





If I could only have one gauge it would be this one. They can just as easily be used for single lines as well (as in dovetail baselines) as the blades retract.

This is how they are used for a 1/4" mortice-and-tenon ..

Use a rule to mark off a ¼” at roughly the centre of the board. It is not critical that this is exact, as long as all markings are made from the face side. Make sure that you have clear reference marks to avoid confusion.



Now mark across the width with the mortice chisel, as shown below.

AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_19759670.jpg

[img]http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_19759670.jpg[/img]

Simply place the ends of the knives (or points) in the ends of the cut. This sets up the cutting width.

AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_m4d3a214c.jpg

[img]http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_m4d3a214c.jpg[/img]

Now slide the head of the gauge against the work piece to set its depth. This completes setting up the mortice gauge.

AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_557894d4.jpg

[img]http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_557894d4.jpg[/img]

Mark the mortice lines.

AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_m71c7128b.jpg

[img]http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_m71c7128b.jpg[/img]

And then mark the tenons with the same settings.

AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_676286f6.jpg

[img]http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_676286f6.jpg[/img]

Reference: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...ndMortice.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Derek's marking the width with the chisel and then setting the gauge to those marks is what I was referencing before.

I'm confused about folks not being able to mark in one pass? I rarely make just one pass with any of my marking gauges, single or double - the first pass is fairly light and quick, and the subsequent passes are deeper and heavier if I want a more pronounced line. But on softer woods, if the first line is deep enough, the Veritas double gauge marks the line in one pass for me. I also wonder if this contributing to some folks having the wheel come loose - if I'm going heavy handed enough that the wheel is going loose, the line is apt to be a little less accurate even if the wheel doesn't loosen up in use if the grain is more pronounced. I'm a righty, but just as often run the gauge in the opposite direction.

A little loc-tite might help keep the wheel from loosening, however, particularly if you're working left-handed.

[Adam Cruea]

This was one of the features that I identified as being a problem. I want the gauge to be able to mark both sides in one pass.

I would get the another of the Vertias marking gauges if you could buy the secondary head to turn it into a mortise gauge but I can't find them on their online site anymore. Maybe they discontinued that product when they developed the dual marking gauge because of the redundancy? My only complaint with the wheel style marking gauges is that because of the way I operate the tool with my left hand (I'm left handed), the set screw that holds the wheel will periodically work itself loose. Such is the cross we leftys must bear in life; we seemed to be made to suffer. It's our lot in life.

I guess I could get one with the pins but was discouraged after using a friend's Crown mortise gauge as I thought it was a little crude in its fit, finish, and adjustment (much like using an Anant plane vs a Lie-Nielsen). Is there a new mortise gauge I could buy that works straight out of the box without those refinements?

I'm happy to make the pin style gauge work, I just want one I don't have to fettle with and although it seems like a fun task, I don't think I'm interested in making my own homemade solution. I'd rather buy one or two quality examples off the shelf and get to work. Are there any pin style gauges that fit that description?

You mean this?

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/pag...88&cat=1,42936

[Charles Brown]

You mean this?

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/pag...88&cat=1,42936

Yes! Thank you. I couldn't find it in my earlier searches.

[Charles Brown]

Reference: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...ndMortice.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek, thank you for your insight. I like the look of the Kinshiro gauge and think it may be exactly what I'm looking for. No filing of pins, intuitive setup, and hopefully, a reasonable price. I trust I'll be able to find a distributor in America.

[Jim Neeley]

If you like the wheel-type gauge, Rob Cosman sells a mortise (tenon) gauge on his web site where you set the close line as "normal" and then you dial in the width directly from your mortise chisel. I've got it and it works well for me.. YMMV..

Jim


mortise_gauge_reflect.jpg