I'm spending 10K - are those the right choices?

[Earl Rumans]

Another thing you need to think about is the finishing process. With your space limitations, what are you planning to do for finishing? A spray booth takes up lots of space and hand finishing also uses a lot of space, to dry between coats. There have been some excellent suggestions given here but before you spend this huge amount on your tools, you really need to sit down a plan exactly what and how you are gong to accomplish building the things you want to build.

[Gilbert Grenier]

I think my best move was to post about my project. You guys gave me great advices / opinions / thoughts and it did open my eyes on a few things I underestimated and a few more I overestimated. Dust collection is now much higher on my list. I even have to make sure my garage is the best place to set my shop. I'll investigate some more and maybe find a decent place that will not cost too much and prevent me from buying expensive tools for the wrong reasons. Sanding and finishing was also missing from my planing so again, thanks for the advices. Good news is I'm closer to start working than I was at the beginning of the week.

[Andrew Joiner]

I think my best move was to post about my project. You guys gave me great advices / opinions / thoughts and it did open my eyes on a few things I underestimated and a few more I overestimated. Dust collection is now much higher on my list. I even have to make sure my garage is the best place to set my shop. I'll investigate some more and maybe find a decent place that will not cost too much and prevent me from buying expensive tools for the wrong reasons. Sanding and finishing was also missing from my planing so again, thanks for the advices. Good news is I'm closer to start working than I was at the beginning of the week.

I think your smart to do that Gilbert. One thing you could try is to take on a small job right now. Tell the client it will be an experiment and maybe discount the price so they will be flexible. See what you can do with the space and tools you have now. You'll learn what you need as you go.

10 years after I retired from professional woodworking I built a 12'x12' shed and got a contractor saw. I made a couple of things for my family just for fun. Then a wealthy friend asked me to build a set of Birds Eye Maple and Walnut office furniture. I wanted to see if I could do it with my tiny minimal shop. My friend was willing to pay well and give me lots of time to do the job. In a sense I was spoiled. My commercial shop was well equipped and spacious, but I got the job done. The client was very happy. It was a wonderful creative experience to build so much with so little.

[Jim Andrew]

About 10 years ago I set up my shop, and spent about 10 k on equipment. Got a 2hp cyclone dc, a unisaw, a mm16 bandsaw, a woodmaster planer-molder, a 10" jointer, and a couple pc routers. The pipe for the dc cost more than the collector, as my shop size was 26 x 50, and since then, still have the unisaw, the mm bandsaw, and the routers. Have spent more since then, sold the woodmaster, the 10" jointer, and added 16' to the shop. Added a Hammer 79x48, a 12" jointer, a 15" planer, several routers, ros and vacs. Also a Makita scms, along with the kreg measuring system, a kreg type assembly table, and some kreg t track clamps, and about 50 or more clamps. Also a Grizzly shaper and power feeder. Found Carbide Processors, and bought blades for plywood, rip,and crosscutting solid wood, and find I hardly need the scoring blade. They have these Tenryu brand blades that cut hardwood like nothing. Woodworking is a slippery slope, pretty soon you need a bandmill and a skidsteer so you can cut your own lumber.

[Gilbert Grenier]

Hi Gilbert, I have an A3-31 and a B3 Winner.

You'll love the A3, buy it with the metric gauge, it is 2mm per revolution which is a nice step and you can exactly repeat previous thickness settings without fuss.

I would suggest that you buy the smaller Hammer slider rather than a SS cabinet saw. I have the machine with the 49" sliding table and the outrigger.

It takes a minute to put the outrigger back on and then you can crosscut a table top perfectly, safely without struggle.

I alsbuild A&C furniture and find the Hammer slider far superior to the General cabinet saw it replaced.

I have the saw with the tilting spindle shaper, because I use the shaper a lot. You should watch all the Hammer/Felder videos before you buy, and seriously consider getting the shaper.

I also have the scoring saw and dado capability along with the flip up power feeder.

Regards, Rod.

Hi Rod

I've contacted Hammer and once I explained the kind of shop I wanted (and my limitations), and the rep told me my best option would be a A31 and B3 combo. Funny how things turn out. He says the C31 is also a great piece of equipment but the shaper spindle doesn't tilt and the mortising unit is not my best option if I do a lot of mortising, which I plan to do. Hence the A31 / B3 combo.

SS is not an option anymore as I learned that once the break engage, it has to be replaced and we're talking a few hundred $$. And from what I gathered, the pressure on the blade is such that it could damage it to a point it needs to be replaced as well. Not a big issue if I saved a finger but apparently it could engage if you cut wood that is not fully dried. I don't know how valid the information is but I don't want to spend 4k to find out.

[Prashun Patel]

I'm not trying to dissuade you from the fine choice of an A31/B3 (and I certainly don't want this to devolve into a Sawstop debate), but my experience has been:

The Sawstop brakes are between $50 and $80 each.
The blade has never misfired on green wood; It warned me once, but honestly I almost never cut green wood on a tablesaw anymore anyway. I use my bandsaw for that. I've cut plenty of air dried beech that is in the 15-18% moisture range on my SS and the brake has never fired.
The blade doesn't just get pressure during a brake fire, it is destroyed.
The blade will fire when it contacts metal, like an Incra miter gauge. DAMHIKT.

I find the technology to be reliable and accurate; there are no discernible false-positives and I've not had to alter the way I work because of the saw, with one exception: dado blade changes require a special brake. So, you have to buy and install a new brake in addition to installing a dado set. This minor inconvenience has caused me to seek other ways to cut dados and tenons altogether.

[Hovey Moore]

Those Hammer machines are very nice and I think you be very happy with them. Get an indexed head on the jointer/planer!

One thing you should do is walk yourself though several projects mentally and note all the steps required to make those projects and how work will flow through your planned space. Then write down all the different ways you could accomplish those tasks. You might find other ways to get by with less equipment (saving money and space) or faster (making you more money). $10K sounds like a lot but it goes fast.

For example:
For cabinet face frames you could, mortise, domino, dowel, biscuit, butt, half lap, or pocket screw. All of them have advantages and disadvantages. Only a few are really suitable for quality production work.

Another example:
Outsourcing raised panel doors costs more money per door over the raw material but it then you don't need a shaper/feeder, all their associated templates and bits, and tons of clamps. Ultimately it saved the shop I worked for money over doing them in house.

[Peter Kelly]

Hi Rod

I've contacted Hammer and once I explained the kind of shop I wanted (and my limitations), and the rep told me my best option would be a A31 and B3 combo. Funny how things turn out. He says the C31 is also a great piece of equipment but the shaper spindle doesn't tilt and the mortising unit is not my best option if I do a lot of mortising, which I plan to do. Hence the A31 / B3 combo.

You might look into one of these for mortising: http://woodgears.ca/pantorouter/kuldeep/buy.html

Makes tenons as well. Also stows out of the way when you're not using it.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Rod

I've contacted Hammer and once I explained the kind of shop I wanted (and my limitations), and the rep told me my best option would be a A31 and B3 combo. Funny how things turn out. He says the C31 is also a great piece of equipment but the shaper spindle doesn't tilt and the mortising unit is not my best option if I do a lot of mortising, which I plan to do. Hence the A31 / B3 combo.

SS is not an option anymore as I learned that once the break engage, it has to be replaced and we're talking a few hundred $$. And from what I gathered, the pressure on the blade is such that it could damage it to a point it needs to be replaced as well. Not a big issue if I saved a finger but apparently it could engage if you cut wood that is not fully dried. I don't know how valid the information is but I don't want to spend 4k to find out.

LOL Gilbert, that's pretty funny.

You should seriously look at the B3 Winner and the A3-31.

You can add accessories at any point, options are only available at the factory.

You can start with the scoring saw and dadoe capability, then add accessories as you desire them down the road, or just buy what you want at the beginning.

ince each machine is built to order you get exactly the machine that's best for you........Rod.

[Matt Day]

I would avoid ShopFox unless you have a Shopfox dealer nearby. I own several and wouldn't buy another. This is not a knock on the machines, which have been fine. The problem is Shopfox does not sell to the public - only to dealers. So, if you need a part, you must buy it through a dealer. If you don't have one nearby, it will take forever to get parts. I'd go with the Grizzly versions of the same tool.

That's "true" but grizzly parts are interchangeable with Shop Fox, so why not just buy grizzly parts and avoid markup and possibly tax from your local Shop Fox dealer?

[William M Johnson]

Probably should not step in to this but here goes. I sold a lot of my big equipment. And have gone green. I bought a SawStop and so far have only used it to make some dados on thin stock that was going to be a pain to use the router on. I use the track saw now (formerly Eureka Zone now Festool) for virtually everything I used the table saw for, with better results. I just glued up a table top with no jointing, the cut from the track saw was that good. Previously I used the table saw then to the Roubo and jointer plane. No more. The table top was mesquite and required gluing up many short boards (12"). I used the Kapex to square up the ends with no second operation. With my old chop saws (regardless of brand) I had to take it to the Roubo and use the shooting board, nope. Perfect joints right off the saw.

And no sawdust. My hand planes are starting to rust because I don't need them to correct the mistakes of all my big equipment. Still have shaper and molder but the tablesaw (PM66) and Jointer (PM59) are a thing of the past.

My $0.02

bill

[Gilbert Grenier]

Hi all,

i just want to give you an update on most of my choices. I know some of the choices my not get approval but I had to keep in mind footprint, dollars (yes, I do bust my initial budget ), quality, mobility and overall appreciation of the tool. In the end, i don't think there are really bad choices but to afford the Hammer I will buy, I had to downgrade some other tools. So here we go:

Hammer B3 winner Tablesaw/shaper
Hammer A31 jointer/planner
Jessem router table w/ masterlift II (already have a Dewalt DWP618 to install on it so I'll sadly let go of the Milwaukee )
General press drill 75-200 (getting it used, great deal on it)
Rikon 10-321 bandsaw (wanted the Grizzly G0555P but got a great deal on the Rikon and save many hundred $$)
I'm not 100% set on the dust control brand but it will be a cyclone to which I add a General 10-600 air cleaner

on stand by: General 75-050T mortiser and professional grade sander (I'll keep going with my Rigid EB4424 for now).

First projet will be a sturdy workbench
Second project... Well anything the lady wants

Thank you so much for all your input, all comments were very useful. I'll keep you posted once i'm installed and production starts.

best regards

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Gilbert, good decision on the Hammer equipment.

I'm curious why you want a router table when you have a tilting spindle/sliding table shaper?

In more than 30 years I've never owned a router table, always a shaper.............Regards, Rod.

[Peter Kelly]

Rikon 10-321 bandsaw (wanted the Grizzly G0555P but got a great deal on the Rikon and save many hundred $$)

I'd hold off on the bandsaw and save up until you can get something more substantial. That Rikon looks pretty marginal for professional use.

[paul cottingham]

I got rid of my router table, and don't miss it. At all. Now, on the other hand, I had a shaper....I would use that. Use the money for dust control or a mortiser, or a better band saw. Use my band saw and mortiser all the time.