Member
Machine cut or hand cut - that's the question. My feeling theses days is that if you are hanging a drawer box on souped up ball bearing side mount slides or the Blum Tandem types, dovetails are an affectation - practically any kind of connecting the parts will do. There I said it
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Otherwise - I like the look and the process of handcut but I envy those guys who have the tools to mass produce - often would come in handy.
jack forsberg is my hero in this thread.
"... for when we become in heart completely poor, we at once are the treasurers & disbursers of enormous riches."
WQJudge
Contributor
If you're making heirloom furniture, then do the dovetails by hand. People will be looking at them long after you're dead and will appreciate that the furniture was "hand made".
If you're making kitchen cabinets, which have a lifespan of maybe 20 years, feel free to make them with a jig. It would take too long to make them by hand and no one would appreciate it anyway.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Member
Quite the piece of kit, Jack. Congratulations!
Paul
Member
There are lots of applications for a really strong 90 degree corner, which isn't heirloom..
A dovetail joint is a really great joint. A tool that makes one really fast is IMO simply a tool offering a better solution..
Heirloom drawers are a separate discussion..
Member
I think it depends on what your trying to fix...appropriate dovetails for modern kitchen cabinetry, modern furniture like I repair for the University I work for, shop furniture etc....machine cut. For period furniture, stuff I build for myself, etc...hand cut methinks. Although period style furniture can be fine with machine cut dovetails, and I've known people to hand cut dovetails with modern laminate style furniture. Methinks in a hundred years or so, furniture historians may have some fun figuring out a few pieces.....Originally Posted by Gordon Eyre
Member
I like this way of thinking. Dovetails can be over rated and over used as a decorative device also....and I've never repaired a period piece...and I've repaired a bunch...that had perfect hand cut dovetails. Guys cutting them by hand in the good ole days were paid by the hour, and working 60 plus hours a week. They for the most part were not being fussy....
Contributor
My FIL had a traditional English apprenticeship just after the war, and he of course cuts dovetails by hand, with very little marking.
They fit extremely well, and he says that after your first few thousand, you get pretty good at it.
I don't use machine cut dovetails, not because I don't believe in machine cut joints, I just don't like machine made dovetails.
For machine made joints I like drawer joints or finger joints.
I make dovetails by hand, and mine are nowhere near perfect, however they look more "fine furniture" in my opinion than perfect machine made dovetails.
Regards, Rod.
[OP]
Contributor
Exactly Rod- it is like using a typewriter versus hand-writing. The handwriting may be less legible, but it has more character.
For the record, I am not knocking machine made dovetails per se; I just have not yet embraced the technology fully. I am okay with it in production but always feel like I am cheating with one-offs. This is mostly just something engrained in me that dovetails are a handmade item. I just wondered if I am alone here.
I regret that I cannot for the life of me find grandpa's dovetail jig. I think it was lost in a move. I have no access to one to try out.
Member
for me it's a question of time and the materials in question. If i need to make several of the same piece, then i use a jig, If I'm working with a really hard wood then I use a jig. This is a drawer from my current project. the front is Jatoba, everything else is hard maple. No way was I making half blind dovetails by hand in Jatoba, I love the wood but it's brutal on hand tools, it's brutal on all tools for that matter.
finishedDrawer.jpg
Last edited by dan sherman; 08-19-2013 at 5:37 PM.
-Dan
Member
While i can see that most think the dovetail machine to be the quick and dirty method that reveals itself with fat even spaced pins and modern. The hand group thinks that hand cut dovetail to be the old best way to cut thin pins attractive joints need to only dig a bit deeper into history, I can assure you that dovetailing machines have been around longer than your grandfather.
this English Robinson dovetailer is in there 1873 catalog and can make any joint that could be cut by hand multiple times.
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2685/4196.pdf
jack
English machines
Contributor
Pics from my kitchen in progress. I know there are folks here who can achieve this by hand, but I ain't one of them. These were done with the new(ish) Porter Cable OmniJig dovetail jig (16" in my case) that has perplexed so many since it was introduced. Myself included. But I refused to succumb and after hours of trial and error, I declared war and set aside 3 days (if needed) to wrestle this thing to the ground until it cried uncle. After the first day, I knew I had won. The problem is, it is an engineering marvel but a manufacturing disappointment. I would love to meet the guy who designed this- he's brilliant. The problem is, the user has to over come the manufacturing deficiencies. Once you understand how it was designed to work, the light goes off. (or on?)
The preceding kitchen vs heirloom discussion is spot on but this IS a kitchen and as I said, I know I can't achieve this kind of perfection without the jig and router(s).
Cherry front and white ash sides and back. Note the telltale Blum Tandem notch and hole at the back. Even tho the cherry front is 7/8" and the ash back is 3/4" they were done with the same setup, the only difference being a 1/8" difference in the half blind dovetail remainder of the stock thickness. Easy.
My chance of achieving this level of perfection by hand is less than zero. Put me in the jig camp, happily.
P1000900.JPGP1000895.jpgP1000894.jpgP1000892.JPGP1000889.jpg
Contributor
I agree completely Dave, I would use a jig for those drawers, which look very nice..................Rod.
[OP]
Contributor
Okay, I would use a jig for Dave's project too. That would be a lot of dovetails. I'm warming up to the idea of getting a fancy adjustable jig. For the time being I can't justify it for the number of times I would use it. If I ever did a kitchen then yes- I would get a jig. Please don't tell anybody. :-)
Contributor
Yeah- it will be 20 drawers when it's done. Phase 1 is these 6 big ones (2 each of pic 3) and phase 2 will be 14 more normal sized ones.
Dovetailpalooza.
Member
One of the regrets of my life is that I have not cut a few thousand dovetails....but that is going to change, methinks.
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