Router plane advice

[Chris Griggs]

Router planes

....they are not required of any task...a chisel CAN do what they can do

....they are not the ideal tools for many taks..rabbets are better with a rabbet plane, grooves are done better with a plow plane, dado are quicker done with a dado plane.

...BUT, and this is a big BUT.....they are a REALLY useful tool for a WHOLE LOT of tasks.

For me the router plane opened up the world of hand cut joinery. Before I had a rabbet or plow and before I had much skill with chisel, it helped me with a lot of stuff. I don't use it as much anymore, but it a really nice tool to have and can be of huge benefit as you develop you hand tool skills, and I do still use it a good bit.

I have the LV...I picked it because of the fence and the large blade selection...I'm glad I did.

[lowell holmes]

The router plane excels in trimming tenons, IMO, better than any other method.

I have an old Stanley that I cleaned up and bought LV irons for it.

That use alone justifies their existence.

[Sean Hughto]

Warren, the truth is that there are plenty of tools we don't "need"', but that can be useful and fun depending upon ones choices as to methods of work. There are always work arounds too. But that doesn't mean folks should not figure out what works for them and what their personal preferences are. A router plane is mighty nice for inlay. It's mighty nice for letting in hinges. It's mighty nice for tenons too if you are a hobbiest and want to make m&ts before you can reliably saw to a line 100% of the time not to mention mark out perfectly and chop mortises perfectly. I kind of hate it when professionals try to set hobbiests up for frustration by telling them that they should not use any tools that make things easier and instead should just use saws perfectly or the like. The poor hobbiests will spend their weekends practicing sawing as price of admission instead of making nice strong furniture. Sorry, this is not a personal attack, just another perspective. I'm just a hobbiest apologist I guess.

For the op, I have the LN nd the LV. The LV fence is a big plus for me, but he LN is a very nice tool. Depends on how you think you'll be using it most of the time.

[Judson Green]

Here's my router a Stanley 71½. Got as part of a larger deal a little more than a year ago. Did see a couple 71's at a local flea market last year the price was very far (like under $20 iirc) but I passed. I've bought a few extra cutters from LV. Haven't used it for tenons but have for stopped and though grooves (I haven't a plow) also a little inlay work. I've changed the sub base to allow the cutters to be used on the other side of the post since these photos.

Don't think it's a tool ya gotta have but

sam_1379.jpg sam_1378.jpg

I'd look for a vintage one at a flea market or whatever, I'm sure you can find a good deal.
Make your own fence or just clamp on a straight board.

[Daniel Rode]

Warren, you make a couple of interesting points. I don't need a router plane. The tables I'm currently building have many M&T joints (34 each, IIRC). I did the cleanup with a chisel and file. It was then that I decided that I wanted a router plane because, for a weekend woodworker like myself, it's far more accurate and repeatable. While the table joints are acceptable, I'm convinced that I would have done more consistent work is less time with a router plane.

I'm an entirely self taught amateur with no interest in doing this for a living. The downside is that I may never be able to dedicate the time it takes to master any facet of woodworking. The upside, though is that I have this incredible freedom to make exactly what I want, when and how it suits me.

I don't need a router plane but I think I'll enjoy fitting tenons with one more than I would with a chisel and file. I just want a less expensive one

You don't need a router plane. You don't need a router plane. I was a cabinetmaker for years before I got one.
If you want to make tenons, learn to saw right to the line, clean up with chisel if necessary. Leaving extra just so you can clean up with a router is a big time waster; lots of extra set up time and work time. If you want to clean the bottom of a dado, use a chisel and a mallet. The chisel has no set up time and is much easier to sharpen.

[Jack Curtis]

We don't even have a full size router plane and have been getting along great for a very large number of years. We do have two or three tiny routers for inlay and like, which work great.

[Jim Koepke]

I'm after a large router plane and I have a few choices. My intended uses for this is fitting tenons, and cleaning up dados and grooves. I'm not convinced the large router will be useful for mortising smaller hinges, but it may get occasional use for larger hinges and such.

Vintage Stanley or similar. These will mostly come open throat with mediocre depth stop or closed throat with no depth stop.

Even a big router can come in handy with small hinges. My recent post on a six board bench had a detail image of a small hinge mortise in which a router was used. They were 1-1/2"X1/2".

First the router was used like a marking gauge on the edge for the hinge mortise's depth. Most of the removal of waste was done with a chisel. Then the router plane was used to make a uniform depth and then to slightly adjust the depth. When the top is closed all of the hinge has to sit inside the hinge mortise. Otherwise it can stress the mounting screws if the mortise is too shallow or too deep.

I find a wide chisel faster for trimming tenons. A chisel can do a lot of the work a router can do. The router plane can hold the blade at a set depth much better than most of us can hold a chisel over a distance.

My router is a Sargent #68 (Equivalent to the Stanley #71). It use LV blades. I put a wooden base on mine so the adjuster nut doesn't have to be flipped.

One thing to consider is once the blade is extended beyond the base the throat/mouth is wide open.

If it were my money I would likely be most interested in the LV at this time.

Or I would keep a search on that auction site, scour Craigslist, antique shops, flea markets and yard sales for a good user to start with.

jtk

[Warren Mickley]

Your point is well taken, Sean. My post is a little overstated. I felt there needed to be some balance in the advice given Dan.

In the 1970's I had some advice from Daniel O'Hagan, hand tool pioneer. He said "Don't be ashamed of your mistakes." I never really knew what he meant by this, but after that I started going for the line, not worrying about the consequences. The result was that not only did my joinery become faster, but much neater as well. My skills took a great leap. I think using the router for tenons is long run counter productive.

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The LN and Veritas are both beautiful, precision tools but $140+ is a lot to pay trim a tenon or clean out the bottom of a dado. I wan't to spend $50 or less. That extra $90 could go toward wood or other tools that I also need and that may get more use.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Your point is well taken, Sean. My post is a little overstated. I felt there needed to be some balance in the advice given Dan.

What balance?

What advice was given?

Daniel didn't ask if he needed a Router Plane, he asked if he should keeping looking for a cheapie or (inevitably) spend the money on a premium model. Most of the replies were from users giving their experience of the various Router Planes that Daniel summarised.

Yes we all know that back in the day cavemen built Hepplewhite cabinets with just an axe and the back of his hairy wife but not everyone wants to have only three tools in their shop.

[Chris Griggs]

In the 1970's I had some advice from Daniel O'Hagan, hand tool pioneer. He said "Don't be ashamed of your mistakes." I never really knew what he meant by this, but after that I started going for the line, not worrying about the consequences. The result was that not only did my joinery become faster, but much neater as well. My skills took a great leap. I think using the router for tenons is long run counter productive.

This is a very important point. Its a mindset I've really had to push myself hard to embrace. I am slow and meticulous with my work by nature, and inherently want to slowly dial things in. BUT embracing this mindset has led me to greatly improve my accuracy and efficiency.

In specific regards to using a router to trim tenons. Well it is a very effective technique, but I have come to agree that in long run it is counter productive. Not in the end result of a piece, but in the context of improving sawing accuracy and becoming more efficient at completing hand cut joinery. I for some time relied on a router plane for trimming tenons, but when a few months ago the the topic of using a router plane to trim tenons came up, Stan Covington made a similar comment to Warren's. I initially disagreed, but when I stepped back and reevaluated my methods I saw his point. I pushed myself to saw with the goal that tenons would either fit off the saw or with nothing more than a few swipes of a chisel or float. As a result my joinery quality and speed improved greatly and in a very short time. Again, I'm not saying a router plane is a bad way to clean tenons...it can be very effective. But if one has the goal of being able to create joinery accurately and efficiently using hand tools I would encourage them to put the router plane aside for this particular task.

Anyway, that's all beside the original point of this thread. While I don't use a router for tenons anymore, I do still find it to be a very useful tool, even though I continue to push myself not to rely on it unnecessarily. As far as picking one, think about what you want to do with it. Do you want a variety of blade options...then you probably want the LV. Do you want an open throat and/or the more traditional grip provided by the upright handles...then you might want the LN. Do you just want something that will do the basic job for cheap...get a stanley.

[Sean Hughto]

Funny, the slowest part of tenons for me is perfecting the shoulders. Tenon cheeks are quick no matter how I do it. Do you arrive at perfect shoulders right off the saw too?

[Jim Matthews]

I use the LV large router for two major fitting steps, and the depth stop function makes that a breeze.

I split my tenons, get close with the chisel and use the router to establish uniform reveals on mating pieces.
That way, if my mortises are in the same plane, the faces of tenoned pieces can be as well.

For getting a uniform depth on dadoes, there's nothing I can use that makes that easier.

I think the most difficult part of any router plane is getting the blades sharp.
I think the modular design of the LV plane makes that easy,
the blades come off the upright post and hone fast.

Without a really sharp blade, it's more an instrument of demolition.

If you're going to cut lots of half laps, or tenons - they're real time savers.

[Jim Foster]

I found an old Stanley for $4.00 somewhere. Works great at leveling hinge mortises, large and small. I've used it for a few tenons also. I think the LV cutters will fit the old Stanley's although I have not tried yet.

[Warren Mickley]

Funny, the slowest part of tenons for me is perfecting the shoulders. Tenon cheeks are quick no matter how I do it. Do you arrive at perfect shoulders right off the saw too?

Sean, I mark the shoulder all around with a knife, then saw right to the line. I have made an awful lot of tenons so it is pretty fast, maybe 20 seconds for all four cuts.

Around 1979 Ian Kirby outlined a method in FWW that I used for about a year. He knifed the shoulder all around,and sawed to about 1/32 away. Then he put a wide chisel in the knife line and chopped the shoulder. It is slower than just sawing, but there is no fiddling around. Maybe you would like this method.

[Sean Hughto]

I basically do a variation of Kirby's method. It is not all that slow, just the slowest of the steps i go through- from mark out (fast with a wheel gauge which yields a knife line - a bit slower with a knife, if required, like with angled shoulders); to cheek cuts, to shoulder cuts, to chisel work on the shoulders, and sometimes a bit of tweaking on the cheek with whatever works for the project from chisel to router or file.

I can saw to the line on the shoulders, but the saw line is never as pretty as the chisel line as far as crispness. I'll do it with poplar and pine as the compression factor takes up any slack at the edge.

Do you saw wide tenon shoulder this way as well? A really like the chiseling 1/32 or whatever when sawing a 6" long apron shoulder or the like.

And do you use any appliance in cutting? Bench hook or what have you? How about shoulder planes? Any role?

Always interesting to hear how someone else approaches things. Thanks.