Question for the Stairmasters

[Matt Ocel]

Pew pictures tommorrow. The pews are 9' with a slight radius. Hard to explain, pictures will work better

[Paul Girouard]

Paul - I'll mock up a split rail tomorrow. It won't be pretty...I broke my only bandsaw blade yesterday (Resaw King cracked and the noise scared the mustard out of me) so I placed an order for a Lennox Trimaster which should be here Monday. I'll have to use my jigsaw for this mock up instead.

I was thinking just along side of the newel up to and held at the right height just for a look see.

[Frank Snyder]

Matt - An "s" turn with a goose neck might work. Making the gooseneck would be a time killer. There's a reason why stairbuilders buy prefab railing parts, and this would be one of them.

Please post some pictures of your pew project. Lately, I've been using Dominoes a lot to reinforce all sorts of joints. If I'm guessing correctly, you're referring to the bench and how to cut and connect the sections? Like the winder treads which are several boards edge joined into an approximate shape, then cut at whatever angle using a guided rail saw system (Festool TS55 in my case). I also have a Bosch angle finder which I use to dial in the exact angles. Depending on your size and radius, you could connect several straight mitered sections together, cut the radius with a good jigsaw, clean up the cut with PC's oscillating spindle sander, then bullnose the edge with a radius bit with bearing. Am I off base here?

Paul - The hardware is basically a keyhole plate with a ramped inside surface which "locks" the joint tight. Do a search for "Fastener Unlimited" if you want more info.

[Richard Wolf]

Hi Frank, it sounds like you, Paul and Mat have beaten this to death. We all know this is a very difficult situation, and throw in trying to be code compliant, and it turns into a nightmare.
My vote would go with a S turn and gooseneck. Winders like the one you have are very dangerous and scream out for a handrail on the short side. Putting a handrail on the outside will only supply you with something to bang your head on, after your fall.
If you are making your own handrail, you could eliminate the easings and miter all your direction changes.

Richard

[Frank Snyder]

Hi Richard,

Thanks for posting your advice. I agree that an "s" turn and gooseneck will provide the best continuous railing for the open side of the stairs. The only problem I see with that solution in my case is how to deal with the remaining spindles after the "s" turn which are in plane with the lower shoe rail. The tops of those spindles would then converge and be split on the outside corner of the upper staircase's skirtboard. Aesthetically, this would look pretty silly IMO. But I suppose aesthetics should play second to safety.

I'll chew on this today and see what I can come up with. I appreciate your advice nonetheless.

[Steve Clardy]

Gee Frank, what did you get yourself into?

Decisions decisions, huh.


How much can you narrow up the upper handrail you have mocked up there?
And possibly shave off the inside of the upper rail where the upper staircase wall comes down and interferes.
Possible to narrower it up, and then move the mocked up rail and shoe over off-center of the newels, [closer to the treads]

Then shoot that top rail straight into the mid newel?

Just doing some thinking here.

[Richard Wolf]

Frank, I think if you half lap the top balusters and maybe chamfer the tops of them, they wouldn't look so bad. I realize this is not going to help with the easy removal idea.

Richard

[Richard Wolf]

Ok, so I gave this some more brain cells and this is what I really think you should do. Abandon the continuous rail idea and trying to be code compliant. The big concern is most likely to make this removable. Continue the rail up to the bottom of the top stringer, miter another piece of rail to it to follow the stringer back down to the newel post and fit your balusters in. This will make it easy to remove. Let's face it, you are not going to grab on to the gooseneck anyway, you will grab the newel. Be careful, teach the kids to walk the stair carefully. I think that is what I would do. Best of luck.

Richard

[Frank Snyder]

Steve - Believe me...I put this staircase project off for as long as I could knowing I'd run into problems like this.

Thanks for your suggestion of narrowing the handrail and moving it off center. While that might work, I'm not so sure it would look cohesive with the rest of the staircase. Also, the balusters are 1-1/4" wide, so that limits me as well.

Richard - Now that's an idea I hadn't considered. Make an "A" with the railing. Very unique. I gain another 6" of handrail by doing this as opposed to the horizontal version I mocked up. I'll need to mock this up and see which one gets the manager's approval (wife). We don't have any kids (just two Basset Hounds...and they don't have opposable thumbs) so we shouldn't have to worry about this too much.

I think we've exhausted all of my options ad nausea um, so I'll make a decision with the wife and start cutting again. I'm hoping to wrap up this railing and paint the staircase over the next few days, then I'll update this thread with finished photos.

Thanks again, everyone, for your thoughts and suggestions. They helped tremendously.

Frank

[Paul Girouard]

Bump , well ??? Did the pew picture /thread slip past me?? Come on fellas what ya do ?? Nuttin Tap , tap ,tap!!!

[Frank Snyder]

I'm painting them today. Pictures will soon follow...stay tuned.

[Frank Snyder]

Here's the finished product. Masking everything off and painting seems to take forever. The railing and newel post are removable. Just a strategically placed tap with a rubber mallet releases the newel, and a couple of upward taps on the railing disengages it from the newel and the rosettes. It takes less than 30 seconds. Putting it back takes a little more patience trying to align the 4 screw heads with their respective keyholes, but its not too difficult.

P1010513.JPGP1010514.JPGP1010515.JPGP1010516.JPGP1010517.JPG


My wife and I decided to go with the non-code compliant railing design for the lower half of the staircase. Richard's idea was a great one and really was the best solution, but aesthetically, it was just too hard to explain. Fortunately, it's just me and the wife (no kids) who'll be using this staircase, so it'll work for us.

(cont'd...)

[Frank Snyder]

There were a LOT of trimwork challenges with this project. The walls were in different planes due to the foundation and other converging surfaces. I tried to make everything look intentional and not reactive to their constraints (with the exception of the lower railing...that definitely was reactive design).

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[Richard Wolf]

Nice work Frank, enjoy it.

Richard