Sawstop Salesman Trashed Grizzly G0661 and Jet Pro Shop

[Ed Garrett]

I'm shopping for a TS. My criteria are: small footprint, strong mechanical parts, moderate power, precision, but lightweight enough to push up and down a ramp. I think that generally puts me in the hybrid category. My town has few woodworking retail options, but I recently visited a small independent shop on a trip to look over the Sawstop contractor on display. I was impressed with everything about this saw except for the protruding motor and open back/bottom. I told the shop owner I was also looking at the Grizzly G0661 and the Jet Pro Shop. Of course he's a salesman and wasn't going to say anything good about these saws, but I was surprised how hard he trashed them both.

Anybody have rebuttal to these (paraphrased/summarized) statements by the salesman:

1. The Jet Pro Shop would be a disappointment
2. If you buy a Grizzly, plan on replacing the bearings. The machine work alignment on Grizzly saws isn't quite right and Grizzly owners have to replace the bearings every few months.

Both statements struck me as inconsistent with thousands of posts I've read on SMC and other WW forums. Am I missing something?

Sincerely,
Ed Garrett
Tallahassee

[Matt Day]

I think you may have answered your own question: he's a Sawstop salesman. I would expect more from anyone in the ww'ing industry though.

[Phil Thien]

His comments, esp. about Grizzly, smack of desperation and/or complete misunderstanding about how machines work.

[george wilson]

Some machine salesmen can be very arrogant. The worst ones I've seen are the Hegner scroll saw salesmen. Some act like they are God's gift to woodworking. I finally got a Hegner variable speed scroll saw,but it was VERY near given to me when Williamsburg broke up a behind the scenes manufacturing facility. All these walking beam saws go a little backwards and forwards,which "files" the edges of the very small work I might be doing. An old Delta goes straight up and down,and the blade is MUCH easier to change. The Hegner blades are a lot of trouble to change.

I don't know if any of those guys actually make anything.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

His comments, esp. about Grizzly, smack of desperation and/or complete misunderstanding about how machines work.

Agreed. And how could he bash other machines he sells?

Oh...wait...he doesn't sell jet or grizzly??? Imagine my surprise........

[John Thompson]

The frist statement leaves grey area that could be discussed as asking "why" he states you wouldn't be satisfied but... the second comment of owners of Grizzlie's have to replace the bearings every few months tells the story!

Is the gentleman (and I may be using the term loosely here) a former new car salesman that found an opening as a WW machine salesman. I think he backed his-self in a corner on that and took you for being stupid enough to believe that without questioning the statement.

But.. I am not familar with the Grizzly hybrid so others that may be can chime in. I will say that I really think you should check the spec weights on both the hybrid and cabinet models as I suspect there isn't a great deal of difference that would be enough to influence me to go hybrid. Maybe.. maybe not? You may already have...

[Jim O'Dell]

The frist statement leaves grey area that could be discussed as asking "why" he states you wouldn't be satisfied but... the second comment of owners of Grizzlie's have to replace the bearings every few months tells the story!

Is the gentleman (and I may be using the term loosely here) a former USED car salesman that found an opening as a WW machine salesman. I think he backed his-self in a corner on that and took you for being stupid enough to believe that without questioning the statement.

But.. I am not familar with the Grizzly hybrid so others that may be can chime in. I will say that I really think you should check the spec weights on both the hybrid and cabinet models as I suspect there isn't a great deal of difference that would be enough to influence me to go hybrid. Maybe.. maybe not? You may already have...

John, I fixed it for you. That was my thought almost to the word as I read the OP's post. Jim

[Matt Benton]

Matt D,

I was responding to Kyle's comments (made after Shiraz's post)...

Matt B

[John Thompson]

John, I fixed it for you. That was my thought almost to the word as I read the OP's post. Jim

Thanks Jim... I thought about using the Used but... since I have been around dealer-ships off and on for over 40 years.. either new or used pretty much fits the bill. A used car salemens probably knows more about auto's in general and will lie to sell it... the typical new car salesman doesn't generally know squat about anything mechanical on a new car and will lie about the competitions product which he even knows less about.

But... both know quite a bit about drinking after the job and chasing women from what I have seen. And to qualify that.. this does not include all as every barrel of apples has a few rotten ones. Every barrel of used and new car salesman has a few good ones.

I better get back to the shop where I belong.. ha..ha...

Regards...

[Bill Wyko]

IMHO if these issues were real, we would have had someone here bring up a post. I've always felt the best way to sell is to focus on your strengths, not someone else's weaknesses. In this case I find it hard to believe the problems even exist. The sawstop speaks for itself. Him doing that makes it a whisper.

[peter leyden]

This does not relate to tools at all - but definitely resonates with the issue of salesmen speaking truth or blarney. Years ago I met the then famous inventor of speaker systems and during the ensuing conversation I mentioned a problem I was having with a competitors product. Instead of taking the low road and knocking the competitors product he recommended giving customer service of his competitor a chance to solve my problem. I was impressed! The products are not the same but the integrity of the gentleman has stayed with me since that time. Examples that were just the opposite(as in the Sawstop salesman) have also lingered in my mind and just serve to point up the "class" exhibited by the inventor.

[Matt Benton]

He is doing what he is paid to do: sell you a Sawstop.

If Grizzly machines, on average, required bearing changes anywhere close to every other month, they would have been out of business a long time ago.

I'm wondering how steep your ramp is. If its not to bad, a quality mobile base might allow you to get a better saw and still be able to move it (and when I say quality, I don't mean HTC, I mean something like Cary's example here):

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ht=mobile+base

[tim young]

Never have liked talking with sales guys that bash other manaufacturers. I've always preferred they tell me what's great about their tool and send me to indepenant review that compares the various tools. Very refreshing when they genuinely want to see you get the right tool. There are a lot of very nice Hybrid saws on the market. I personally like the Powermatic and General saws. I don't recall if they make a hybrid. But I know they make a contractor style saw.

[Matthew Hills]

you should ask him about the craftsman saws that you see coming up on craigslist periodically...

The Grizzly info doesn't sound like what I generally hear... although I had heard that their early equipment wasn't all that great -- maybe there were bearing issues on some tools 10-15 years ago (?)

Jet Pro Shop is an okay saw. I have one. In its heart of hearts, it is a contractor saw, but with the motor tucked underneath and a bit more enclosed. Dust collection isn't great. Blade guard is pretty bad. Fence is pretty good. Do get the cast iron wings if you get it. The Jet mobile base isn't too bad.

Matt

[Roger Jensen]

Before jumping on SawStop for unethical sales tactics let's review what it means to be a salesman (or salesperson) for a company these days. The OP didn't say where this happened, but the companies I have seen selling SS these days are selling many other products and don't have that much knowledge about any of them. Even if they have 2 or 3 dedicated folks that really understand SS, the OP could have encountered a part-time guy with no training or authority to say what he did.

I encounter ignorant sales people all the time, whether it is appliance salesreps that don't understand their products or tool retailers that sell far too many brands to become experts in all of them. I believe that retail stores today operates on such razor thin margins they can't invest the necessary resources to train all of their salespeople about their own products, let alone the competitor's product.

The OP may have encountered a sleazy salesman. Or, the salesperson was told this by a frustrated Grizzly customer (there is probably one out there) that he had a bad experience and passed this on to him. I doubt all Grizzly products have these problems, and I doubt all SS salesreps lie to their customers.

Roger