Anybody affected by the Toyota recall/stop selling order?

[Pat Germain]

Of course you weren't because you are a big Toyota fan and don't want to believe it might not be the best car.

Ouch! No, not really, Matt. I am genuinely a car guy. I wan't all cars to be great. I actually drive a Volkwagen Jetta, which I really like. When I rented the Sebring, I wanted it to be a great car. It just wasn't. I grew up with Ford, GM and Chrysler vehicles. I used to be a big fan. They chased me off through bad behavior.

Same reason you are going on blind faith that Toyota has better fuel economy. Its an easy thing to look up.

Well, not blind faith. I was going by the numbers I had seen previously. I had not seen the new Cobalt and Malibu numbers. I'm glad the the MPG is very good. As I said, I'd have to see the numbers.

I've had Toyotas as rentals. I didn't find them to be anything special. Might have something to with where I live and where my friends and neighbors work.

Now, wait a minute. You were acusing me of bias and you throw out that line? How do your friends and neighbors affect the quality of an automobile? If you want to support friends and neighbors who work for GM, for example, I can understand that. But it doesn't mean the cars they make are better. And, if you weren't impressed with a Toyota, that's understandable. Just like I'm not impressed with anything Chrysler or GM is making right now; other than the Corvette.

[Matt Meiser]

No, I'm pointing out that we all have bias.

[Pat Germain]

I went from a Camry to a Sebring...

Again, I'm glad to hear you're happy with your Sebring. I personally did not like the car. I have talked to people who prefer a Chrysler over a Toyota because they find the Chrysler more comfortable. It makes sense to go with what suits you best.

But currently you cannot say any american company produces and inferior product compared to the imports.

I think we'll just have to disagree there. I honestly think my Jetta is superior to the Chevy Cobalt or similar a Chrysler vehicle. I'm not sure about Ford. I've heard and read very good things about their small cars. So, maybe the Focus is superior to my Jetta, the Honda Civic and the Toyota Corolla.

And, if Toyota has been playing slimey, they deserve to be spanked.

[Pat Germain]

No, I'm pointing out that we all have bias.

OK. I now get it. I agree I'm biased. But I truly wanted to like that Sebring! I chose it over a Japanese car during my trip. I did the same years ago on a family vacation. I chose a Dodge Stratus over a Toyota Camry because I really wanted to like the Stratus. It was OK.

[Paul Ryan]

I will be the 1st to admit I am some what biased. I have spent most of my years with the domestics. I have experience with the imports but have never had a good one. When I bought the camry I wanted to like it as well. But I lost a ton of money on a car that was suposed to last that did not.

It is good to have variety because we never know what is good or bad for us unless we try something else. I am not pointing fingers at anyone here. I just dont like the domestic car companies being bashed over mistakes that they have made. But when an import company makes an equal mistake they are given a free pass because they are trendy.

[Dave Johnson29]

I lost a ton of money on a car that was suposed to last that did not.

A neighbor just spent $2600 replacing the rear struts, shocks etc on his 2007, Toyota Dealer serviced Camry. All shot and was told it is about normal for 135,000 miles.

I was stunned as I have owned a lot of Toyota vehicles in the past and they have been the utmost in reliability and durability.

[Mark Beall]

You forgot to mention that he was also pushing on the brakes as hard as he could - the rotors and calipers were totally burned up.

Some people may wonder why an experienced highway patrol officer didn't shift to neutral under those conditions. I would instead say that the conditions are so challenging that even an experienced highway patrol officer wasn't able to save himself and his family. A stuck throttle on a high powered car doesn't give you much room for error or a lot of time to think.

Quite a tragedy, and avoidable too. Floor mat retention clips have been pretty standard for many years now....

Interestingly, I just happened to March issue of Car and Driver today and they tested a Camry V-6 (basically the same engine as the Lexus) under these conditions. They had no problem stopping the car from 70 or 100 mph under full throttle. It took 16 ft more at 70 mph at full throttle vs closed throttle (190 ft vs. 174 ft). They were pretty clear that Toyota did need to do some things that other car makers do to make things safer (close throttle on application of brake, change how push button ignition switch works, etc.)

I did a little searching and found a story that said that someone else had that car a few days earlier and had the same problem and was able to brake the car from 85 to a stop. It would seem kind of likely that he wore out (or otherwise compromised) the brake pads (assuming that story was correct).

In the spirit of learning from other people's misfortune (which I have a done fair amount of here at SMC - makes me be more careful around my tools), we should all learn that the right thing to do if the throttle gets stuck on your car is to 1) apply brakes hard, 2) shift into neutral (shouldn't hurt anything if you get Park instead on an automatic)

mark

[Matt Meiser]

(shouldn't hurt anything if you get Park instead on an automatic)

Mythbusters tested this and no, it doesn't. The gist was that the transmission is designed to prevent it. Shifting into park instead of braking INCREASED stopping distance by something like 1600' because it was just a coast.

[Mark Beall]

Mythbusters tested this and no, it doesn't. The gist was that the transmission is designed to prevent it. Shifting into park instead of braking INCREASED stopping distance by something like 1600' because it was just a coast.

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I mean that putting it into park instead of neutral wouldn't hurt the car for just that reason. You do still need to hit the brakes.

mark

[Jim Becker]

Maybe this will change people's attitude about the quality of American cars. Ford and GM have come a long ways in quality but many people perceive the Japanese cars as still having higher quality. This debacle could change that perception.

It's been reported that the gas pedal assembly in question was made in Elkhart IN. That's what they're checking for on the vehicles that were sent to the EU which apparently are also involved.

I'm not convinced that this has anything to do with where a company is based.

[Mike Henderson]

I'm not convinced that this has anything to do with where a company is based.

I don't disagree with you. The point I was trying to make is that many buyers still think of American cars as being inferior to imports in quality, even though measurements (such as customer satisfaction) have indicated that their quality is essentially on par with the imports. The reputation American cars had was the hang-over from earlier years of poor quality.

Having a major import company, especially one that had a reputation for superior quality, have significant quality problems may cause buyers to take another look at American cars and realize that their quality is on par with imports.

Mike

[Having said that, it's tough to get a burner buyer to go back to a brand. For example, I owned a Nissan Maxima quite a few years ago. It was a mess - there was always something going wrong with that car. I don't care what kind of progress Nissan has made, I'll NEVER own another Nissan. If you gave me a Nissan, I'd sell it and buy some other brand.]

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Mike,

I feel the same way about Chevy.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I would suggest.........

1. Toyota didn't become #1 selling automotive manufacturer just because it's trendy.

2. American manufacturers got their poor reputation by earning it. The cars they made in the 70's and 80's and their poor calloused attitude towards their customers that went with it sank their boat.

3. Most Toyotas and Hondas driven in this country are made in North America.....my purchasing those supports somebody's neighbors.

[Mark Beall]

I don't disagree with you. The point I was trying to make is that many buyers still think of American cars as being inferior to imports in quality, even though measurements (such as customer satisfaction) have indicated that their quality is essentially on par with the imports. The reputation American cars had was the hang-over from earlier years of poor quality.

Having a major import company, especially one that had a reputation for superior quality, have significant quality problems may cause buyers to take another look at American cars and realize that their quality is on par with imports.

Mike

[Having said that, it's tough to get a burner buyer to go back to a brand. For example, I owned a Nissan Maxima quite a few years ago. It was a mess - there was always something going wrong with that car. I don't care what kind of progress Nissan has made, I'll NEVER own another Nissan. If you gave me a Nissan, I'd sell it and buy some other brand.]

I'll agree with most of your points. For me there are few cars from American car companies that I would consider buying. There are some and more than there were 5 years ago, but I think there is still a ways to go. I would very much like for my first choice to be a car from an American car company, hopefully for my purchase after my next one, that will be the case (the next one is a Nissan 370Z, already decided on that - hope it doesn't turn out like your Maxima )

On the current Toyota issue (my last 3 vehicles have been Toyota's so I'll admit a bit of brand loyalty there - never had the smallest problem with any of them), I wonder if it's really that common of a problem or if it's pretty rare and someone high up said "we don't sell cars that have these kind of problems" and that's why they have stopped sales. If it's the latter then I might actually be impressed with their handling of the situation. How many car companies have actually stopped selling cars when they realized there is a problem with them - I've never heard of it happening before.

I've had a similar experience with a "bad" car that's turned me off of a brand. I had a new BMW 3 series that, in the first 3 years, ended up in the shop enough times that I just didn't want to keep it since it would likely cost me too much (and that was a wonderful car in every other way), doubt I'll buy a BMW again. I've never had any of my Toyota's in the shop other than for scheduled maintenance....

mark

[Walt Nicholson]

There is a very good article in the Wall Street Journal today titled "Too Big Too Soon" that chronicles Toyota's rise because of their dedication to quality and how that quality so quickly eroded when they took their eye off the ball and became consumed with being #1. The quarterly sales count to see if they were ahead of GM clouded everything else. As a result we are now seeing all of the class action suits for frames rusting through, Prius's losing brakes and going through horribly expensive headlights like a baby through diapers, over 3 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles bought back by the factory because of engine sludge problems, and on and on. Quality has no direct relationship to the country a product is produced in. It has a direct relationship to the corporate policy of the manufacturing company itself. There are some incredibly high quality tools that come from the East shipped on the same boat with some real junk. The difference is "standards". Some of the U.S. mfgs finally woke up and are indeed building vehicles with quality equal to, and in many cases better that the foreign rivals. Although I agree with the fact that buying an "import" built in the U.S. provides jobs for our neighbors, it still bothers me that the majority of the money that is paid for the vehicle (profit) does in fact leave the USA and goes to the parent company in a foreign land. Just old fashioned I guess.