Any tips on pricing for custom cabinets???

[Michael Dunn]

I just finished building my first cabinet for a customer. I was a bit too excited to bargain for a better price. I built a single cabinet for a kitchen sink. I used pocket screws for the face frame and tongue and fado joinery for the sides, back, and bottom. I charged $100 installed.

From time it took to estimate, a couple trips to the store, and actually building it I spent about 6-8 hours.

What do you charge for simple cabinet like this? I'll post pics in a minute...

I am thinking about having a $125 minimum charge, installation extra...

For the record my $100 did not include materials. The customer purchased them and delivered them to my shop.

This person rehabs many homes and likes my work. I would like to do business again, $100 per, I feel is not worth my time.

Thanx,

shotgunn

[Joe A Faulkner]

First let me say I've never made a dime on woodworking projects. I've owned rental properties and done a bit of rehabing over the years. Landlords/investors are typically looking to make money, so if you can be price competive with the home centers and provide equal or superior quality/craftsmanship, then you might use typical retail prices at the home centers as reference point. Go to your local home center and get some quotes on cabinets made using the components you are likely to use - solid frames and door panels, quality sheet goods for the sides; decent drawer slides. Then figure out if you can compete. You deserve a decent labor rate as well as some cost recovery for your tools, blades, equipment, etc. Don't forget to include things like finishes, brushes, even items for clean up. These little incidentals add up. Not to mention your electricity, your vehicle being used to get materials and deliver products. Good luck.

[Michael Dunn]

She didn't even have me rebuild the doors. Weird huh? Here are some pics, just for the heck of it.









I tried to emulate the exact style of the existing cabinets.

Thanx for the tips, I'll be sure to head to the big box stores to see what they have and for how much $$.

Thanx,

shotgunn

[Gary Breckenridge]

Let me see, your tools, time, shop and truck. I bet you have some shop materials in the job. I'd go with $20 per hour as an absolute minimum and work up from there. Be careful on too low a quote to win a job; a super low price will be expected next time.

[David Gendron]

+1 for Gary. And $20/hour is cheep labor!!

[Michael Dunn]

I said $30/hr initially. I think I may start from there next time. Start high and work low. I think it took me about 90 minutes to make and assmemble the face frame. Perhaps around 2 hours to to the joinery for the sides. 1 hour to sand and assemble, and around an hour to install.

Approximately 5 hours, plus a couple trips to lowes, menards, etc...

Now she expects me to finish it too. I haven't told her yet, but NOOOOO WAY!!! The job started out as a face frame repair. I agreed to finish just the part that I repaired. However after further investigation, I ended rebuilding the entire cabinet.

Thanx,

shotgunn

[Clint Barden]

I've done a few cabinet projects for hire. It's a hard road if you are legitimately trying to make money. There are a few books on how to price your projects and make money. You need to charge more for sure.

[David Prince]

When you first estimate a project, play it out in your head and decide how long you think it is going to take you. From there, decide what you think your time is worth. Multiply your hours times your rate and get your price. Add any materials needed for the project. You could then also decide a percentage to add as your overhead to cover wear and tear on tools etc. Write this out. Do the project. Keep track of your time and materials. You may come in low or high. Keep track of this for future reference. Sometimes you hit it, sometimes you don't. That is where experience helps. Be up front and honest with the lady. Tell her you were able to do this particular project for $100, but that you would need $150 in the future (Or whatever number you need). She can then choose to continue with your services or try to hire someone else. (Also keep in mind that the more you do of a certain type of project the more efficient you become. You can then do those same types of projects in a fraction of the time and you will come out ahead) You may not be making alot at $100 a pop, but it will help you stay busy and may lead to more work that you might be able to actually make something on. I don't think there is a woodworker or carpenter here that hasn't lost money on a job. It goes with the territory. There is also such a thing as pricing yourself right out of business!

[Bruce Wrenn]

If you aren't charging in the $45 - $75 an hour range for labor, you might as well be picking up beer cans from beside the road to sell. You will make more money on the cans for time and equiptment invested. Remember you only have two things to sell, your time and talents. You can only sell them once, so get the best price you can the first time. Every year, Cabinet Maker magazine does a pricing article. They take a project that someone has already done, and everyone tries to figure their price to build. The numbers are all over the place, with some being way too cheap (yours) and others way too expensive. Price out comparable cabinet at BORG and see what it sells for. Ive been doing a laminate job for the last month, on which I made "good money", until I figured my TOTAL HOURS in. Still made money, just not as much per hour as I should have. It's my own fault, as I gave them a fixed price. Doing a job next week that I should clear 3K on, but it has to be done in nine days, no if, ands, or buts. Some jobs you will price thinking you are going to make a "ton of money," and you only make wages, while some others that you feel have no profit will get you some nice change. You win some, and you loose some, just make sure to have more winners than loosers.

[Leo Graywacz]

$15.50 per lineal inch for natural birch. Calculate a percentage for higher/lower material prices. $100 per door, $100 per dovetail drawer and slab front. $35 for slab drawer front in the case of a sink. Finishing is done on a percentage of job. 20% for a clear coat, 25% for a stain and clear, 30% stain, tone and clear and another 5 percent for glazing. So basic clear is 20% and tack on another 5% for each additional step.

The $15.50 is price installed.

a 36" sink cabinet with 2 doors and 1 faux drawer front would be $793 plus whatever finish schedule on top of that.

[Steve Milito]

$15.50 per lineal inch for natural birch. Calculate a percentage for higher/lower material prices. $100 per door, $100 per dovetail drawer and slab front. $35 for slab drawer front in the case of a sink. Finishing is done on a percentage of job. 20% for a clear coat, 25% for a stain and clear, 30% stain, tone and clear and another 5 percent for glazing. So basic clear is 20% and tack on another 5% for each additional step.

The $15.50 is price installed.

a 36" sink cabinet with 2 doors and 1 faux drawer front would be $793 plus whatever finish schedule on top of that.

My kitchen had a 4' 'pastry' counter ( a lower counter for rolling out dough). It was poorly conceived and had wasted space beneath it with decorative lattice. I had one of the better custom cabinet makers in the area build a cherry cabinet. It had 2 doors and six drawers. The finish was matched to my existing cabinets as was the hardware. The cabinet work came out to the low $2k range. I also had electric and plumbing done to turn the whole thing into a coffee bar. So the overall project was a bit more expensive. Granted, the cabinet was fancier than yours, but I think $100 is under priced.

FWIW: The cabinet looks like it was always there, with the style and finish perfectly matching, which is why I had a pro do it, rather trying it myself. He immediately knew who built the original cabinet, and knew where he sourced the doors, drawers, and hardware at first glance.

[Gage Hearn]

$15.50 per lineal inch for natural birch. Calculate a percentage for higher/lower material prices. $100 per door, $100 per dovetail drawer and slab front. $35 for slab drawer front in the case of a sink. Finishing is done on a percentage of job. 20% for a clear coat, 25% for a stain and clear, 30% stain, tone and clear and another 5 percent for glazing. So basic clear is 20% and tack on another 5% for each additional step.

The $15.50 is price installed.

a 36" sink cabinet with 2 doors and 1 faux drawer front would be $793 plus whatever finish schedule on top of that.

Hey Leo, good informaton here! Would you be willing to provide an update on about what this pricing would look like 14 years later? Trying to get an approximate baseline for pricing my own cabinets. Dont want to sell myself short. Thank you!

[jack duren]

The only thing you should be charging by the hour is high end furniture.Cabinetry is not by the hour.

[David Prince]

If you aren't charging in the $45 - $75 an hour range for labor, you might as well be picking up beer cans from beside the road to sell. You will make more money on the cans for time and equiptment invested. Remember you only have two things to sell, your time and talents. You can only sell them once, so get the best price you can the first time.

Keep in mind the market you are working in! At this rate you are saying $93,600 to $156,000 per year if you work 40 hours per week. You better be pretty darn good for that! I would pay your rates, but it better be good.

Not trying to criticize the base cabinet in the above pics, but I am not overly impressed and definately would not pay $45 to $75 per hour for that. The reveal on the left hand side of the last picture doesn't look like it is lined up correctly. It lacks support across the very top rail. (imagine a person sitting up on the front edge of that sink on the installed cabinet. I can see it giving way) Looks like 1/2 plywood sides. Malamine bottom. No drawer fronts, back, doors, or finish. 6 - 8 hours to build this would put you at $270 to $600 for this cabinet based on Bruce's prices. I think you were closer when you quoted $30 per hour. If you are doing high-end cabinets, then $45 to $75 per hour is fair, but you better be good enough to earn that!

[Joe Jensen]

Keep in mind the market you are working in! At this rate you are saying $93,600 to $156,000 per year if you work 40 hours per week. You better be pretty darn good for that! I would pay your rates, but it better be good.

Keep in mind that the number is gross. If this is a hobby shop guy trying to make some cash for tools, that's one thing. If this is a budding business, you need to make enough to cover all the time spent on things like trips to home depot, trips to measure, trips to install.

Last year I did my first pay job in 20 years. The client was my wife's friend and they wanted an 80" wide cabinet in a media room finished to match the rest of the cabinets in their home. I ended up bidding $2100 and they agreed. I tried very hard to plan to minimize trips their home as it was 30 minutes each way. I hoped to do only 2 trips, one to measure, and one to install, but alas I needed to make a third trip. In the end, I made $50 an hour if I didn't count redoing the finish 3 times to get it to match the existing finish. The homeowner had the original stain so I figured it would be easy to match. Turns out that much of the pigment had settled and hardened in the bottom of the can of stain so it would never match. Counting my actual hours, and nothing for wear and tear on my truck ($1.00 per mile according to Edmunds), and nothing for the use of my tools and shop, I made $30 an hour. Most people only think about gas on the cost of driving. Every mile you drive reduces the value of your vehicle, wears tires, moves you closer to a brake job, etc. My kids drive a VW Jetta and according the Edmunds the true cost to drive that car is $.58 per mile. And that's one of the lowest costs. Don't forget saw blades, router bits, screws, glue, it all adds up.