Whirlwind--Competitor to Sawstop?

[Paul Wunder]

http://www.npr.org/2012/04/02/149843...eets-table-saw

NPR radio did the above piece today on a blade safety device called the Whirlwind which the inventor claims can be retrofitted to just about any existing table saw. The inventor is a retired engineer/hobby woodworker. Just as with the SawStop, the inventor says that the manufacturers of table saws have shown little interest in his device. NPR closed the piece by stating that the Consumer Product Safety Commission is in the process of writing new rules on table saw safety.

Paul

[Ron Natalie]

He's been around a while. When you press him for details he gets cagey. It involves a lot of fiddly stuff you're forced to do to get the saw on. It then relies on the fact that your hand goes under the oversized blade guard long enough to get his motor brake to stop the blade to avoid injury.

http://www.whirlwindtool.com/

[Dave Lewis]

He's been around a while. When you press him for details he gets cagey. It involves a lot of fiddly stuff you're forced to do to get the saw on. It then relies on the fact that your hand goes under the oversized blade guard long enough to get his motor brake to stop the blade to avoid injury.

http://www.whirlwindtool.com/

Ron:

I heard that NPR piece this afternoon and agree it seems to be complicated after briefly reviewing the site - thanks for the link.

It also seems doubtful that this product could be sold retail as "desert" - i.e. w/o the main (machinery) course.

[frank shic]

that's an interesting strategy although i would imagine that the injuries are much more common from not having the blade guard in place. i'd still go with the sawstop technology if i could do it all over again.

[Bruce Page]

Please leave the politics out of the discussion.

Thanks

[Michael Peet]

I remember reading about this some time ago. From the website:

"STOPS the saw blade in 1/8 OF A SECOND"

At a speed of 3500 RPM with a 40-tooth blade, 291 teeth go by in 1/8 of a second. Just sayin'.

Mike

[frank shic]

rule #1 use a blade guard
rule #2 don't shove your hand or fingers under the blade guard

those two have prevented me from losing my fingers over the years although they didn't prevent kickback...

[Van Huskey]

I remember reading about this some time ago. From the website:

"STOPS the saw blade in 1/8 OF A SECOND"

At a speed of 3500 RPM with a 40-tooth blade, 291 teeth go by in 1/8 of a second. Just sayin'.

Mike

Not arguing the merits but just pointing out the idea of this approach seems to rely on starting the blade stopping procedure BEFORE hand meets blade. This would reduce the number of teeth meeting flesh by how much certainly depends on a lot of factors.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Not arguing the merits but just pointing out the idea of this approach seems to rely on starting the blade stopping procedure BEFORE hand meets blade. This would reduce the number of teeth meeting flesh by how much certainly depends on a lot of factors.

Bingo! I'm surprised others didn't catch that!

[frank shic]

welcome david and thank you for trying to make the table saw a safer device!

[ian maybury]

It's pretty clear from the website that he's at the stage of having a demonstrator available, and seeking to sell the technology. The unfortunate reality from what I've seen is that it's (in the general sense) very often the case that inventions at this stage get 'borrowed' by seemingly respectable manufacturers, it's no wonder he's cautious. It's a hard road that he's on - lots of stress and frustration if he's invested heavily to get this far.

ian

[Keith Outten]

Gentlemen,

David is not allowed to post in this thread, our TOS prohibits him from being involved in any conversation that he has a commercial interest.

Posts made by Members with direct commercial affiliation, and with the apparent intent of using SawMill Creek for the sole purpose of promoting a product or service will be subject to removal. Members with direct commercial affiliation are defined to be those Members who stand to benefit financially from such a promotion.

[Russ Ambrose]

given where it appears the CPSC and California are headed (i.e., requiring blade brake technology on future table saws), i'm surprised that one of the big tool manufacturers doesn't just buy Whirlwind lock, stock, and barrel for themselves. if it's everything the guy says it is, the company that purchases it would appear to then have a potential leg up on their non-SawStop competitors. they would own a technology that they will be required to include with their equipment and then can either license it to their competitors or shut them out completely (see SawStop).

i realize that my comment assumes many things, not the least of which is what Whirlwind is trying to accomplish (i.e., sell the technology or simply license it) and how much it wants for such. i also realize that there are many aspects of the table saw business that i am, shall we say, less than expert in. nevertheless, i find this to be an interesting topic and would love to hear from others that are smarter and more knowledgeable than myself about this.

[Will Blick]

Russ, nice set of disclaimers :-), very wise.....

To get a product from conception, prototype to commercial production is often so long, the patents can expire, and this assumes the inventor will be granted a patent. If a patent is granted, just how enforceable is the patent? Does he have the avg. $600k to defend a patent? It's rare small inventors today can prevail in the patent game, although in this case, the inventor has no other market to pursue, unless he will be SS II. Its rare you find someone like Steve who took SS from conception to a viable manufacturer, he was well funded, and driven beyond 99.9% of the business population. Entering the TS business when he did was surely a major risk, even with his innovative safety technology. Had he could have license his technology, it would have been a cleaner approach to success, but as many have learned from these threads, that was a terrible failure. A mix of "value assessment", egos, legal, market share, prevented major makers from adapting SS technology. This is commonplace in the business world...

There is many ways to skin a cat.... you can be assured all the major makers have been diligently pursuing their own TS safety methods. SS demonstrated a market exists for safer TS's, the big makers don't want to loose market share....to that end, I am sure we will be seeing new introductions of safety features from the big TS makers in the years to come.

[Russ Ambrose]

Will,

the difficulties you describe are why, to me, it would make sense for Whirlwind to just sell the whole kit-n-kaboodle to a tool manufacturer. again, i realize that may not be something Whirlwind is seeking to do. moreover, i would think that the lesson from SawStop is to embrace the changing world or get run over by it. i'm not as convinced as you seem to be that the non-SawStop mfgs are seriously pursuing blade-brake (or similar) technology. if they weren't astute enough to get on board before why should i believe that these folks have "seen the light" and are willing or able to undertake such a dramatic shift in their thinking and manufacturing?