SAWSTOP: Any Updates?

[Ken Waag]

I should be coming up on the SawStop waiting list soon and I was just curious to hear from anyone who has one. It's always nice to get the hands on scoop. I know Dave Wright #2 had been posting, but no news since Oct '04.

Dave if You're out there any news? (see my post on your previous SS thread)

Or any one else?

I read the FWW review which was generally positive but talked mostly about safety (understandably) but I'd like to know more about operation/features as well.

For any one else who is interested in the matter, I did a search and found this user's review http://www.just4fun.org/woodworking/...views/sawstop/

He said he was trying hard to be objective but that it was the best tool he had ever seen. He listed pros and cons which I'll let you read on the link.

Not much else out there since it has only been out a few months, so any input appreciated! thanks, Ken

[Keith Starosta]

Hi Ken. Matt is actually a member of Saw Mill Creek. You should drop him a PM about the SawStop. I'm sure he'd love to talk with you about it.

Keith

[Per Swenson]

I spoke with saw stop on Friday afternoon.
I preordered a 3hp cabinet feb 5.
Mine is ready to ship.
Bank transfer payment 9:01 am Monday.
I am truly excited.

Per

[Mark Singer]

Per,

Let me know when it gets there....I send a package of Hebrew National Frankfuters...quality all the way!

I spoke with saw stop on Friday afternoon.
I preordered a 3hp cabinet feb 5.
Mine is ready to ship.
Bank transfer payment 9:01 am Monday.
I am truly excited.

Per

[Todd Burch]

So, I've got a real question here about the Saw Stop.

I've not followed the Saw Stop plight to any great detail, but I do understand that, basically, if your body comes in contact with the blade, a 1-time brake engages, and the blade is hosed, and you have to buy a new brake for a tidy sum.

Does the Saw come with an extra brake? A brake service plan? And, since you have been spared loss of limb, or finger, of whatever might have been flopped up on the saw..., how long does it take to get a new brake installed - pretending you have one sitting in wait on the shelf?

Can the Saw be used without a brake while the replacement is being UPSed?

Are the SawStop people going to be coming out with a MiterSaw? If your wood is wet/green, will the SawStop false brake?

[Ken Waag]

Todd,

There are people with more expertise than myself who may chime in on your questions. My only expertise comes from following the development of the safety system and then the saw and reading whatever I could about it. I'll answer your questions to the best of my ability.

I believe the brake units are $60. In simple terms the system works by sending a small electrical current to the blade. Anything conductive that contacts the blade will draw away some amount of that current. There is a sensor that detects the current loss and if it is sufficient, the brake mechanism is triggered. Essentially it is thrown into the spinning blade, bringing it to a halt in milliseconds. You may have seen or at least heard of the hot dog tests. It happens that a frankfurter has a very simailar conductive pattern to human flesh. So they run them into the blade in demos. When done at wood feeding speed the dog gets a nick barely thru its skin.

I had wondered about a faster approach at the blade and my question was anwered by a WW teacher who swung a hot dog on a stick into the blade as fast as he could. The weiner suffered a bit of a cut, but as assessed by an ER Doc who happened to be in the class, it would've required "2-3 stitches." Do that with your finger on a regular saw and you may still be looking for your finger.

I do not know how long it takes to replace the brake mechanism. A Dave Wright #2 on this forum has the saw and say the manual gives hints on getting the blade and brake OFF of the saw which is apparently the tricky part as the becomes "welded" together. Putting a new brake catridge in (and yes, I assume a wise user would keep one on hand) amounts to snapping it into place.

The saw is, of course, designed not to work w/o a brake cartridge in place. I don't imagine it would take much smarts to override that, but anyone smart enough to do it should be smart enough not to do it, if you know what I mean. I plan to keep spares on hand and assume most would.

Wet or green wood will apparently not trip the mechanism as it is not close to the conductivity of flesh. As I understand it the main concern in tripping the brake is grounding the blade in some way. This would obviously draw all of the current from the blade and kick the brake in. The one false trip reported thus far happened when someone cut a piece of wood which had a piece of foil tape on the underside. This established an electrical path from blade to table and tripped the brake as well it should have. Had the tape been on top my conjecture is that nothing would have happened. The foil tape should not have had enough mass to dra away sufficient current and it would not have been grounded. It took the tape touching the table and then meeting the charged blade.

I have not heard of a miter saw available with this technology. But have read that it has been prototyped with a number of macines (probably a miter saw in there somewhere). The applications for this concept are immense, which most people do not realize. You'll see talks on these forums about the number of tablesaw injuries etc. but that is just the tip of the iceberg. The numbers get truly dramatic when you consider the possibility of a variety of machines and particularily industrial settings when the volume really kicks in.

Well perhaps I've addressed your questions, and possibly given you more info than you really wanted. I won't rewrite the saga for you here, but it is really an interesting story. Both in terms getting the technology to market and the discussions it has spawned. www.sawstop.com for more info on the saw. Do an internet search or a search on any woodworking forum and you'll find more info., but you'll have to wade thru alot of Kndergarden level babble and hot dog jokes.

[Dino Makropoulos]

The applications for this concept are immense, which most people do not realize. You'll see talks on these forums about the number of tablesaw injuries etc. but that is just the tip of the iceberg. The numbers get truly dramatic when you consider the possibility of a variety of machines and particularily industrial settings when the volume really kicks in.

.

You right there Ken.
I saw the Saw-Stop in IWF Atlanta last year.
What I saw there was not just a fine piece of machinery. I walk away thinking of all the possible uses and the real life benefits of this sophisticated and brilliant idea.

[Tom LaRussa]

Are the SawStop people going to be coming out with a MiterSaw?

A radial arm would be a great idea too. I've heard some real horror stories about them.

While we're at it, why not a Jointer-Stop? That's the most frightening piece of equipment in my shop.

Maybe a Planer-Stopper? You don't hear about too many accidents with these, but the one I have heard of was where a guy had his arm chewed off up to the elbow. That's enough to put a person off woodworking for quite a while.

Maybe a Bandsaw-Stopper? Build it into the upper wheel housing and set it up to snip the blade in half when contacted by flesh. Of course Lennox Trimaster users would probably rather lose a finger tip than a blade...

[JOSEPH GOVEA]

Hi Ken,

I just received my sawstop last week All packages came undamaged except for the 52" rails that yellow feight had lost/missplaced This weekend I cleaned off the top & noticed that the table top had small pits in the the cast iron. I called Sawstop & spoke to a rep. He told me to email him pics of top and that he would get back to me. But other than that the saw appears to be built like any other high quality cabinet saw.

[JOSEPH GOVEA]

Hi Ken,

I just received my sawstop last week All packages came undamaged except for the 52" rails that yellow feight had lost/missplaced This weekend I cleaned off the top & noticed that the table top had small pits in the the cast iron. I called Sawstop & spoke to a rep. He told me to email him pics of top and that he would get back to me. But other than that the saw appears to be built like any other high quality cabinet saw.

hi Ken, just received an email from sawstop they are going to send me a new top to replace the pitted one. All I can say is what great service the sawstop co has provided me they are also going to send me another set of 52" rails if yellow feight doesn't find them by wednesday.

[Alan See]

Joseph, Me too! My Sawstop arrived last Wednesday, But Yellow misplaced by rails! Rails should arrive on Monday. The saw is fantastic! though I haven't made any rip cuts yet. Quite an improvement over my trusty Ryobi BT3000! I also have a mobile base on order from HTC. When it gets here, I guess I'll need a little help lifting the saw on.

[Dave Wright #2]

Alan,

I lifted mine into its shop-made mobile base with two sawhorses, a bunch of 3"x3"x3/4" plywood scraps, and a spreader bar clamp. The sawhorses fit beneath fence rails, one against each side of the saw. The spreader clamp was used to tip the front of the saw up. Plywood scraps held it there and I shifted the spreader to the back. Rinse and repeat until the saw is high enough to slide the base in below, then reverse the process to get it back down into the base. Work carefully to make sure that the saw doesn't tip or shift unexpectedly.

Just a thought if there aren't several strong backs handy.

Regards,

Dave

[Alan See]

Weren't you worried about bending your rails? Of course, I haven't seen the rails yet. I have been seriously considering just leaving the thing on its pallet, and buying a pallet truck (jack) to move it around. I could put pallet type bases under all my machines, and probably come out cheaper than buying a mobile base for each. I'm tall, so the extra 3" height isn't much of a problem. Has anyone ever done that?

[George Summers]

Alan -

The pallets, to me, would seem to be a good idea at first, but then I was thinking (bad idea sometimes). The pallets are quite a bit bigger than the bases of most machines. Wouldn't the pallet sticking out around the machine get in the way of walking around the machine and create a trip hazard?

George

[Dave Wright #2]

Alan, the rails and steel angles that attach them to the table castings are quite sturdy. Where I placed the sawhorses may have also been important. The horses I used fit beneath the rails so they could be placed close to the cabinet. Not much of a span. I was more concerned about the fact that much of the saw's considerable weight would be suspended from the top and the cabinet tabs. Steve Gass advised me ahead of time that they would take the load, but I should take care with the lift because the saw is not equipped with dropstop.

George, interesting idea leaving the saw on the pallet. It adds 4 1/2" to the saw's height for a total of 38 1/2". I'm 6'-0" and have been happy with my saw at 35 1/2" (34" + 1 1/2" added by my mobile base). I would guess that 38 1/2" would work for a person 6'-4" or above. The pallet measures 38" square - pretty large compared to the 20" x 25" cabinet footprint. It would almost surely interfere with use of the saw. The pallet jack idea is interesting though. One might make a custom pallet, thinner and smaller, for the purpose.