Grizzly G0490 Modifications/Improvements?

[Bill Space]

Hi,

I received a new Grizzly G4090X jointer last week and made a couple modifications which are (in my mind anyway ) improvements which I thought I would share.

Perhaps others have also done something they might add to this thread.

When reading reviews posted on line by others who purchased this jointer I noticed some complaints about the way the control panel red light operates,

First thing I did is a simple modification that causes the Red Lamp that is in the Stop PB to come on when the stop PB is released. This way the light indicates that the circuit is energized and motor is ready to start. (The red light being on when the motor starter circuit is DE-energized is counter-intuitive to my brain). The fix was simply lifting one wire off one terminal and putting it on a different terminal on the back of start PB contact block.

I will try to attach a photo showing what was done. Not having much luck this morning, having lost what I typed here for the second time this morning!

Anyway, as it sits now both lights on the control panel stay out until I release the stop PB. At that time the red light comes on. When I push the start PB the green light comes on and the motor runs. When I push the stop PB both lights go out until I release the stop PB when I want to start the motor the next time.

I think having the red lamp on when the motor is running might help me find it more quickly if I have an emergency need...I will try to attach a picture:

(I will also try to see how to recover what is saved after "auto save" flag appears)

Looks like I managed to add the image.

Bill


aaaaaaa G4090 modification 2.jpg

[Bill Space]

Hi again,

The other thing I did was add a simple adjustment feature to make motor positioning and belt tensioning an easier task. I will try to post some pictures this evening or sooner if I can.

Bill

[Dick Holt]

I have the Shop Fox W1741 which is the same as the Griz.
The dust collection was terrible until I took a piece of sheet metal and closed off the top of the dust chute with it. Works great now. I also replaced the stock blades with Dispoz-a-blade system. Makes blade changes a snap.
Dick

[Wade Lippman]

I have the Shop Fox W1741 which is the same as the Griz.
The dust collection was terrible until I took a piece of sheet metal and closed off the top of the dust chute with it. Works great now. I also replaced the stock blades with Dispoz-a-blade system. Makes blade changes a snap.
Dick

Have they fixed that? I am right now assembling a 0490X and the top of the dust chute looks to be closed. Or am I not understanding the issue?

BTW: they require a lift truck to put the table on the base. I don't have a lift truck. I don't think I could even get one in my basement. What to do?

No, that's not it... my wife and son are as good as a lift truck. My real issue is two set screws left over after assembly. There were two in the box with the pulleys and another two in the hardware bag. I don't see any use for the second two. Did I not do something?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

IIRC...the early G0490's required the DC modifications.....the later ones and the G0490X have already had the change installed.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

It may be a matter of personal preference but I would suggest the factory wiring where the red light comes on when the OFF switch is depressed will indicate why the On switch/button isn't having any effect. It's in the Red or Stop mode.

Bill,

A little research led me to the NFPA 79 regulations for industrial equipments which according to the source, requires that lighted switches must have a red light indication for "Off"......and a Green light for an "On or start" condition. I worked with large scale electronics for over 40 years and knew the standard I saw was red is off and green is on and wondered if it was a requirement. Apparently it is.

[Bill Space]

Ken,

Like you say it may be a matter of personal preference. I am not up to date on the NFPA regulations/recommendations. I have worked in in heavy industry on the electrical side for about thirty years. For example, in power distribution, RED means a circuit breaker is closed, and GREEN means it is open. Also when no lights are used, Red buttons are STOP buttons and Green are START buttons. So from my background experience, a light going out when a circuit is set to be energized seems backwards. Gut feeling if nothing else. But like you said, to each his own, at least in the home shop.

The other undesirable thing for me with the Grizzly setup is that the red lamp was lit all the time the power plug was plugged in. I don't know about others, but I don't unplug all the tools in my shop each time I leave... I have read comments from others who felt the light going out when the machine is set to start seemed backwards to them as well. In any event, for anyone who prefers the red light to come on when the machine is set to start, and to go out when the machine is in more of a safe mode, it is not difficult to make this happen. Just wanted to point this out to others who might like to make this change since it is accomplished so simply.

Actually, I think the modification I suggested does do what you indicate the NFPA suggests, that is, the red light does come on when the machine is stopped and ready to start. The thing that does not happen is that the red light does not go out when the machine is running (both lights being on). It would be a more difficult circuit change to make the red light go out. There could be a unused contact in the starter portion of the control that could make that happen, but I have not looked at it and will not bother, as I can see an advantage to having the lighted red PB in the event I need to find it quickly (at least no disadvantage).

Hope that information is of help to whoever might like to make that change.

When I get to my other computer I will post that other "improvement" I made that allows adjustment of motor position and belt tension without much grief...sure beats using a bottle jack to hold up the motor!

Bill

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Bill,

The regulation as I read it says that a red switch is used to turn off devices and if the it is a lighted indicator switch the red light indicates power is off.

As I read it, a green switch is used to turn power on and if it is a lighted indicator switch a green light indicates it is ready to start OR is ON.

All manufacturers have to meet NFPA regulations to sell equipment. I assure you that switch is wired to meet NFPA regulations. It's not an arbitrary thing.

The Off switch isn't a momentary switch so that if you shut power off using that switch, it can't come back on accidentally. The red light indicates the off switch is engaged. The light is lit and you know power is applied to the jointer. This is an added safety measure. If you don't want to see red light, rotate the switch button to disengage it. The light is out and the machine still isn't on.

I don't see any advantage to rewiring the switch but it's your jointer, you can do what you want.

[Bill Space]

The regulation as I read it says that a red switch is used to turn off devices and if the it is a lighted indicator switch the red light indicates power is off.

Ken, I think that is the point I am trying to make. Before starting the jointer, the illuminated red stop PB must be turned to release the PB. When this is done, the red light goes out. The green light is also out because the machine has not been started yet. So the machine is sitting there ready to start, with the red light out. Nothing changed except power has been applied to the control circuit. Power is not applied to the motor.

At this point, by your interpretation of the NFPA, in this state the red light should be on (machine is not running, so power must be off). Your interpretation makes sense to me (but does it mean off and ready to start, or just off ?). The G4090 indicator light as it comes from the factory only indicates that power is available to the machine. When the machine is in the state to be started, the red light is out. So the red light may not be doing what the NFPA says it should do, that is, tell you the machine is stopped (and able to start). An unknowing person could come to the machine, think there was no power available, and push the start button and get a big surprise.

I am not sure if you have this model jointer yourself, so you may not be aware of how the stop PB works on this machine.

It is like this:

Machine stopped and red PB pushed in and lock in, RED Light is ON

Red Stop PB is twisted to release it, RED light goes out (No lights on, but machine is set to start)

Green PB is pushed and the machine starts and the Green light goes ON.

Red Stop PB is pushed and the machine stops. The red PB locks in the pushed position, and the red light comes on.

As the machine comes from Grizzly the only time the jointer motor will start is when the Red Light is OFF. At that point one cannot know if power is available to start the machine or not.

So I guess the question is: By the NFPA, RED ON means power is off to What? To the Motor? Or two the control circuit? Or to the machine itself? The Grizzly set up tells you there is power to the machine, not that the motor is set to start or that the motor is running. The way I rewired mine, the red light tells you there is power to the control circuit and that the motor WILL start if the green PB is pushed. Generally one needs to know when a potential danger exists, I.E., that if start PB is pushed the motor is going to start. I think that may be the intent of the NFPA regulation. My suspicion is that Grizzly may not have gotten it right, just like they did not get the power cord right, when they used a white and black wire for the hook up to 220 VAC (should be black-black or black-red).

In any event, it is nice to talk through these things. Whatever makes the most sense to each individual in the home shop is probably best, if it helps that person avoid an unexpected machine start up.

I believe to make the indicator lights work properly according the the NFPA, the red light should be on to indicate the machine is ready to start, and that when started the green light should be on and the red light should go out. Like I mentioned in the previous post, I did not feel that in my case the red light being on when the machine is running would be a detriment to me personally...For me, I gained by making this simple circuit change...I would not change it back, but would make the red light go out when the motor is running if I thought that would benefit me.

Bill

[Chris Barnett]

The set screws might be for the motor pulley. I had terrible vibration [shudder] problems with mine when I pushed stop; Grizzly CS said the set screws might be loose. They cautioned me that they are stacked, one on top of the other, to lock the inner screws in place.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Bill,


Manufacturers have to meet the NFPA regulations to legally sell equipment in this country.

The way I read the chart, an off or Emergency off switch has to be red and if equiped with an indicator light, the light must be red in color indicating the machine is not operating.

To me it read that the on switch button was green and if equiped with an indicator light, green indicated ready to start or On.

Personally, I think it's safer as it arrived from Grizzly. The red light tells me the machine is off, the cutterhead isn't moving and yet power still applied to the machine and it's controls circuits. The same light serves as a visual reminder why the machine doesn't start when I push the Green "On" button. I use the reminder more I often than I care to admit.


On another topic, if I may. I really like my G0490X! It's worked well for me. One thing you might consider as you set it up. Remove the set screws on the motor pulleys, cutterhead pulleys etc...use a little small thread blue loctite type thread locker (removeable locktite) and reinstall the set screws. While there are a lot of happy G0490X users here, some have had problems with set screws loosening up and backing out shortly after being pressed into use. I took the time while I set mine up and I haven't had a problem yet. I suspect vibration during shipment causes these to loosen.

I really don't want to be confrontational

It's your jointer, do what you want.

[Bill Space]

Chris,

I had a bit of vibration problem too. But that was on shutdown, when the centrifugal switch dropped out I think. Actually while running too, but it reduced a lot after running the machine a couple hours unloaded, just spinning the cutter head in the air (under the guard, naturally).

Also had some set in the serpentine belt that I think was causing some vibration, but not much now that I set the belt tension better. Also, putting the adjusting feet lower, at the end where the foot lift thing is located helped a lot. Low enough that the drop when the that foot lift thing is released is not a bang, but just a little bump. I still sense a little vibration, but can put four nickles on the tables, one at each end and one on each side of the cutter head, and for the most part they will stay upright from start to stop. Must be careful when pushing the stop PB though, or doing so will cause them to fall...

I found that I was unable to adjust belt tension properly, and installed a simple adjustment mechanism (sounds complicated - mechanism - but it is not). I will post details and pictures in this thread probably tomorrow at this rate... )

While it is probably not advisable, I carefully increased and decreased belt tension while the motor was running to find a sweet spot. I could only do this because I could put a wrench on an adjustment nut and keep my fingers and other body parts well clear of the belt.

I was surprised that the significant shudder on shutdown reduced to merely a click. And the vibration while running reduced as well.

Bill

[Bill Space]

I don't mean to be debating this...but just to be clear...

"The red light tells me the machine is off, the cutterhead isn't moving and yet power still applied to the machine and it's controls circuits. The same light serves as a visual reminder why the machine doesn't start when I push the Green "On" button. I use the reminder more I often than I care to admit."

How does the red light tell you this?

As shipped, when the G4090 red light is on power is NOT applied to the control circuits. It is only applied to one side of the Stop PB. Power is applied to the control circuitry when the stop PB is released and the red light goes out. I do see what you are saying, but as rewired my red light is ON when the machine is not running too. But I see the red light as saying "DANGER" while you may see the red light as saying "Turn the power on".

But like you said previously, whatever works for the individual (and makes operation of the machine as safe as possible for that person) is what is best. I am not promoting anyone change anything. But did want to point out this simple change to those who, like me, do not intuitively see Grizzly's scheme as the best way to accomplish the goal. I had read others comments about this before purchasing my machine, and I guess that planted the seed... Having the red light go out when the control circuitry is energized does not work in my mind or agree with my 30 plus years experience in heavy industry, working both as an electrician and an engineer.

In the end, what works best to keep us aware of our surroundings, and dangers present, is what is important. I am sure we can both agree on that (and probably most other things too).

Bill

PS..Ken, I too really like this jointer and think it is a REALLY good value. I got the spiral cutter head and really am impressed with it. After a little adjustment to the tables it cuts smooth and flat. Actually, I get a little suction under the board on the exit table. Someone had mentioned this and I forgot about it. I was surprised when I experienced it. Sure beats my old 6" Craftsman! The fence on the Grizzly is the same length as the whole old jointer... What a difference!!!!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Bill,

If the light is lit, obviously there is power applied to the control circuits Sir. The lamp is part of the control circuit. It is meant to indicate the machine is not running and also indicates power is applied to it.

I refer you to this Sir to this site for an explanation of indicator light colors with respect to switches used on industrial equipment. http://www.iprocessmart.com/techsmart/lightcodes.htm

Red indicates an master off or emergency off switch has power turned off. Green indicates start or on of one or more motors or start of energization of machine elements.

In the case of the Emergency Off as on our G0490X's the machine emergency off shall not depend on illumination of it's light (if a bulb burns out, it still has to work!). The NFPA 79 also requires that Emergency stops have to be reset before power can be reapplied to the machine. That's why you have to rotate the red button CW to release and reset the Emergency Off switch. The light goes out and then pushing the Green start/on switch will turn on power to the motor.

From what I read, apparently at one time, a red light did indicate a motor was on and a green light indicated that a motor was off or de-energized.

[Bill Space]

Well it has taken me longer than I expected, but if all goes well several pictures will be attached to this post.

I made simple brackets which on the pulley side of the motor provide down pressure for belt tightening, and on the fan side of the motor hold it in an adjustable position. When making adjustments to the motor position (angular and horizontal position, all four motor mounting rail bolts need to be loose. The belt holds the pulley end of the motor, but the fan end wants to fall unless supported by something. I used a bottle jack to do this but found it cumbersome. I was not able to easily adjust the belt tension so I came up with this idea. Works really well!

Here goes my attempt to attach pictures. I hope the pictures will be clear enough. I did add some notes to them...

Oh, almost forgot. How do you guys align your pulleys? I made a simple tool that worked well for me. I checked the flatness of the edge that contacts the pulleys, using the jointer table, then cut a slot in the melamine covered particle board so it could slip over the edge of the motor base...

BillAA Motor Pully Side 2.jpgAA Motor Fan side adjustment2.jpgAA Adjustment tool 2.jpg