Hammer, Sawstop or Grizzly TS ?- aka not another TS thread!

[Rich Riddle]

Sorry folks but yes this is another request for opinions on table saws. I've read the recent posts on sawstop, both for and against. Here is how I rank them in my mind and how I'm leaning and wanted to get input.

#1 Hammer K3 Winner - Everything I've seen and read has been positive but granted, I haven't found that much on it. I'll see it live next week but so far it has the lead in my thinking. Looks to be a very high quality saw. What can you guys tell me about Hammer and this saw?

If you are going to the woodworking show, I went to the one in Kansas City. I didn't see any dust and stood around for quite some time to talk to the representatives. They were occupied with tire kickers for hours though that's not their fault (one man talked to them for several hours alone from the time I got there to the time I left). I didn't see any power cords to their units, so it's unlikely they turned them on. I was able to walk up to the machines and look at them first-hand (the representatives nodded their heads and waved). They appear to be very well-made machines and sturdier than my Unisaw and the Sawstop that was at the show. I have seen Grizzly models and they are better made than those as well.

The Hammer will cost the most to operate. Blades are different and a bit more expensive. Right now you can get one at a reduced price through their website. I did hear him tell the one tire kicker that the shipping was $100 less through the show, BUT all the vendors there were charging sales tax (perhaps that was only for items purchased there). The prices listed on the N4400 bandsaw is the same price listed under the website promotion price. If sales tax had to be paid at the show, it would actually cost less to order via the Internet. If not, it would be $100 less through the show. This saw is produced in Austria.


The Grizzly will be the least expensive to operate. Members who own Grizzly tools say the customer service is superb. Their table saws are made in China. This will be your least expensive model at about 50% the price of the others. As a side note, Roland Johnson told me at the Kansas City show that if someone had to give him one 16" to 20" band saw, it would be difficult for him not to pick the Grizzly saw he reviewed for Fine Woodworking. Apparently, the editor of the magazine has that as his band saw.

I have used a Saw Stop at the woodworking shop on a military base (special services). At that time, the shop had two or three of them and two or three Unisaws. The Unisaw models were always occupied when the shop was busy. There was no scientific pole to figure out why. The Saw Stop is a set price no matter where you buy it. You can sign up for a drawing to win one at the woodworking show; if you do the sales department has all your contact information and permission to contact you. The Saw Stop price hovers near the price of the Hammer. This saw is made in Taiwan.

I choose to use the Gripper TM 200 when performing delicate rip cuts on the table saw; those will be a show special at the woodworking show if you are attending.

After seeing at least all three saws, I believe the Hammer looks the highest quality. There's not much difference in quality between Saw Stop and Grizzly, but the Saw Stop is slightly higher quality. You have to determine if that slightly higher quality and the safety features are worth 100% increase over the Grizzly. The same holds true for the Hammer.

[Rick McQuay]

A Grizzly doesn't really belong in the comparison, not that there is anything wrong with it but the SS and Hammer are leagues above it in terms of finish and quality. The Delta Unisaw is still made in the USA and is an outstanding saw by all accounts. Everytime Delta is sold there are rumblings about parts availability but in over a decade of owning a Delta I've never had to buy parts for it. Considering they are made in America then I doubt that parts for new saws are going to be difficult to obtain should you need them for some reason. Taking money out of the equation, choosing between a SS and Hammer the Hammer would win everytime. The videos on that machine are amazing. I might lean toward the Unisaw as I like the idea of keeping Americans employed and supporting American manufacturing, what little is left.

[mreza Salav]

I have Hammer saw/shaper and a Sawstop ICS. IMO, the Sawstop is a better built machine and will withstand a lifetime of abuse. On the other hand, the Hammer is a fine entry level machine with much more capability. Personally, i feel as though comparing the two is like comparing an f250 to a minivan. Two completely different machines. The first thing that needs to be determined is what your doing with it, hauling kids or hauling lumber.

you are the 1st I have seen to own both and be able to make comparisons. I have ICS SS as well and think it's a very well engineered saw on all accounts.

[ian maybury]

Can't compare with the others, but have a Hammer K3 Perform with an 8ft slider.

Like all these things in woodworking there's a scarily large number of price point/specification options out there, and in a slider that's particularly true. Paying more (potentially up to multiples more) tends to buy more features, a stronger/stiffer structure and hopefully more accurately manufactured/longer lasting parts/greater accuracy in use.

My sense of the K3 is that it's well capable of working to professional standards - mine has proven to be capable of accurate set up and seems to both perform that way and hold its settings. It's probably not a saw to put in a commercial shop where rough treatment, continuous use and/or heavy work use could cause some problems.

I love the slider, it makes for very controlled (= safe, accurate and repeatable) working - even if the methods are sometimes a little different (a lot of what might have been done of the rip fence gets done off the slider) to a table saw.

Two cautions. They need accurate setting up, so check that whatever slider (if you go for one) tends to be well set up as delivered - unless you're good at that sort of thing. Be aware too that most need some fixturing/work holding kit which costs extra. (e.g. hold down clamps, maybe parallel bars and a slider side extension table)

Slider length is an issue that gets raised all the time. Long sliders take up up a lot of space, but even if you typically work with smaller parts it can be very convenient to have a slider long enough to be able to leave say two or more set ups (the full length cross cut fence, and a short one) in situ without having to keep on removing/replacing/setting them up again...

[Mark Denovich]

I have a new Grizzly 1023RL and a 1995 Minimax Lab 30 (a sliding table saw, shaper, jointer/planer combo). I would say that it's perfectly valid to consider (some) Grizzly against the likes of the Hammer and SawStop. The Grizzly 1023RL is smooth as can be, solid, simple, quiet... BUT... even though my MiniMax is old, a bit beat-up (it was $600 on craigslist!), not as smooth, and is annoying to adjust blade height/angle, however, it's almost always the saw I use. There is no comparison when it comes to sliders and traditional saws. I love straight-line ripping on the slider (who needs a jointer)... it makes fantastically accurate crosscuts, and the scoring blade makes cutting ply a chip-free operation. I love the safety inherent to slider mechanism.

(FWIW: I also own a Hammer 4400N bandsaw and a ton of Festool stuff too.)

[Hank Hill]

Two cautions. They need accurate setting up, so check that whatever slider (if you go for one) tends to be well set up as delivered - unless you're good at that sort of thing. Be aware too that most need some fixturing/work holding kit which costs extra. (e.g. hold down clamps, maybe parallel bars and a slider side extension table)

That's my struggle with the Grizzly. I just can't make myself believe accuracy was a priority but I've seen a few threads where Shiraz has said this isn't true but who knows in the long run at this point.

Slider length is an issue that gets raised all the time. Long sliders take up up a lot of space, but even if you typically work with smaller parts it can be very convenient to have a slider long enough to be able to leave say two or more set ups (the full length cross cut fence, and a short one) in situ without having to keep on removing/replacing/setting them up again...

That's a very good point.

[ian maybury]

Typo, sorry

[scott spencer]

I suspect that when most people dismiss Grizzly as lower end, they're referring to a $1500 G1023 or a G0690, as opposed to one of their $3K models, of which I know nothing....just wondering if anyone has experience with Griz's upper end.

$3345 shipped:

[Hank Hill]

I suspect that when most people dismiss Grizzly as lower end, they're referring to a $1500 G1023 or a G0690, as opposed to one of their $3K models, of which I know nothing....just wondering if anyone has experience with Griz's upper end.

$3345 shipped:

That is their lower end. The G0623X and G0700 are economy (European design) sliders. Their upper end sliders go all the way to $12k. It might not seem like it based on a traditional American table saw but $3k doesn't buy much new.

[David Kumm]

Grizzly makes a small slider that looks interesting. The model pictured has legs in front and back. In my world they would be in the way, not allow the machine to be moved, and indicate the table bed is not robust enough to be unsupported as on other saws. MM used to make a similar design but gave it up long ago. I have looked at several big Chinese sliders made in the plant Biesse owns. they all sell for 10-12K. In general they all appear very heavily built although the castings and details appear rougher and less refined. I couldn't see the motors and don't usually like Chinese electrics. In fairness, the Italians have been known to stick some chinese electrics in some of their components. Asian sliders might be good machines but used sliders are so cheap you can buy a Format, Altendorf, SCMI or even a Martin for less. Assuming you are avoiding the electronic programming. Dave

[Peter Quinn]

Hank, any saw supplier will supply blades for your Felder/Hammer machine, they aren't hard to find at all.

When I bought mine I had most of my old blades bored out for under $20 per blade.

regards, Rod

Amana makes them too, they are pretty well distributed here in the US, we use them where I work on a small Griggio slider with brake and pin system. 30MM bore with the two holes for the pins on the arbor nut. You won't find them at the home depot, but they aren't hard to come by at all. I actually bought one on a close out from a local amana dealer which had a 5/8" bushing pressed in for my PM66.

[Mike Heidrick]

....Griz's upper end.

$3345 shipped

Not even close. Take it you don't get the catalog yet??

[scott spencer]

Just trying to keep the price within the same range of others he's looking at....

[Charlie Watson]

well I think I will go with the Hammer. I've priced it out and it's not cheap but working with quality tools contributes to the enjoyment I get from the craft. I will pair it with a Hammer A3-31. Thanks all for your input!

[johnny means]

Grizzly makes a small slider that looks interesting. The model pictured has legs in front and back. In my world they would be in the way, not allow the machine to be moved, and indicate the table bed is not robust enough to be unsupported as on other saws. MM used to make a similar design but gave it up long ago. I have looked at several big Chinese sliders made in the plant Biesse owns. they all sell for 10-12K. In general they all appear very heavily built although the castings and details appear rougher and less refined. I couldn't see the motors and don't usually like Chinese electrics. In fairness, the Italians have been known to stick some chinese electrics in some of their components. Asian sliders might be good machines but used sliders are so cheap you can buy a Format, Altendorf, SCMI or even a Martin for less. Assuming you are avoiding the electronic programming. Dave

Actually, the legs are there to increase the footprint of the saw not to support the table . Without additional sport sliders would be extremely tippy. With the table fully extended, I could use my weight to get a 2000# SCMI tilting.