HELP choosing wood species for a "newbie" kitchen...

[Mark Kay]

If you started the ff with maple, you should probably make it all out of maple. Trying to stain it to match another species is not as easy as it sounds. Maple also tends to get blotchy when stained. A clear finish is easiest to apply, will help lighten things up, and will look very good with the style you've selected.

Thanks Ben. I didn't want to try inset doors yet so will be doing overlay, probably 1" or 1.25" and a lot of the face frame will be covered. Also, some of the maple I used had some grayish-greenish-brown heartwood (I assume that's what it was) which I picked specifically for character--I know one of the FF's for one of the pantries was like this. Because of wanting some character, I'm not ruling out Hickory yet... maybe even some brown maple. Money may be a factor too.

[Greg Barnett]

Looks like my hickory cabinets.
hickory cabinets.jpg

[Mark Kay]

Hi Mark,

First I applaud the effort of building your own kitchen. it is a big job, and can be quite daunting. But it sounds like you are quite patient, and are taking yoru time to study it and do it right. I've got dark countertops in my kitchen (soapstone, which I really like). the sink is stainless steel, although I've done the soapstone w/white sink in my last kitchen. Both of these kitchens I went with oak doors, slightly different finish/frame style etc. But both a semi-dark oak. I've got downlights in my kitchen now, 4 of them. Plus a large pendant light over the island, and lights under the upper cabinets for the countertops. I stronly recommend looking atyour lighting situation. It is easier to deal with it before you install new cabinets than afterwards. Kitchens need lots of light.

As for staining maple - that is tough! I thoght a blond wood like that would be easy to stain, but actually Maple does not take stain well at all.
I know you didn't specifically ask for this -but I couldn't help myself, as I've done a fair bit of kitchen work over the years...sorry if I go on too long...

Corner sinks are tough, they may seem great, but functionally are a bit tough to use. I've never liked them personally. I've installed a couple for clients, they seem happy but I'm not sure. The one you picked is definitely different from ones I've installed, so maybe it will work. I think you end up with too much counter material in front of the sink, or it is awkward to use the sink. Also, it looks like you have a bit of cabinet over the sink. This will make sink work tough, it will be hard to get over the sink. Think back on all the kitchens you have been in, and ones you have liked/disliked. have you ever seen a kitchen sink with a cabinet right over it? I'd go for getting the sink in front of the window.

Also look at your dishwasher location, it looks like you are going to have to run some drain and possibly some supply lines through the drawer cabinet that is to the left of it. this will shorten all those drawers.

Best of luck...and please keep posting as you go...

oh yeah, I second the idea of a kreg jig for face frames - if that is the style you have finally decided on.

Kevin, thanks. I've been reading as many woodworking mags that I can find or download, hundreds at least, I'm still rounding up tools & accessories and am making some jigs first if I can, I'm just stuck on what to do for a crosscut sled on a Bosch 4100... I'd like to make something big enough to do 24" wide plywood, and I'm confused about making sleds for a left tilt blade. I already added the Bosch outfeed extension and they make a left side extension too.

I will have to look at any electrical improvements but the biggest problem is there's not much room... I mean, the current light sits on those 12x12 ceiling tiles and don't know what's behind them... if any room. It's around 94 inches from floor to ceiling tiles. I am planning on adding a soffit/bridge over the window and will have 2 lights in that, plus was thinking about both under cabinet lights (not many cabinets to do this with) as well as maybe rope lighting above the cabs behind mldgs.

As for corner sinks, I have both the black granite/quartz Kindred I pictured earlier (expensive & waited forever to get it) as well as the stainless "M-shaped" or "W" or butterfly shaped corner sink. The Kindred has a large deep bowl plus a smaller shallower sink bowl, and a drainback area. The large bowl is almost twice as big as my current sink bowl. the bowls both face the edge of the counter on the Kindred, and the large bowl goes almost to the edge. My original plan was using a diagonal front on the corner base cabinet, but went to the bi-fold corner to get the sink closer to the user. It will essentially be as close to the edge as the cabinet allows, like a normal sink (2-3"?)

For the dishwasher I asked for advice on a different forum about the location and was told I had it too close to the sink when I originally had it immediately to the left, so I moved it down further. I didn't think it was too close because I intended it to be a drawer type DW, and I'd have the basket on the counter waiting to be filled--I didn't need to have room to open the door on it while standing at the sink.

I am using the Blum style levelling legs for the toe kick so my cabinets will be cut at 30.0" high plus 4.5" legs and toe kick. This way, the lines to the dishwasher will actually go UNDER the cabinet between the sink & DW, instead of behind or thru. That cabinet between I didn't decide 100% yet if it will be 3 drawers or a trashcan pullout, though I'm leaning towards drawers right now.

As for the cabinet over the sink, the short cabinet (30") is partly over the sink but more than half the sink should be clear, maybe 2/3 or 3/4...HOWEVER, instead of 18" from counter to cabinets, the cab over the sink is 24" distance to cabinet; that means the bottom of the cab would be ~5ft high, way out of the way of any interfering with dishwashing or anything.

The tricky part I have to pull off is somehow mounting the sink temporarily until I can afford countertops--the sink is a top mount so it should be able to also overlap the adjacent cabinet to the right by 6"... this allows that cab of drawers to be 18" instead of 12". By the way, the plumbing is currently near the KitchenAid mixer and left pantry, so the move to the corner is only a couple feet. And by using the corner sink it gives me 5-6ft of contiguous countertop depending on if I go with the garage or not.

I have all the new appliances except no dishwasher, so until I get one I can sit in its place for now!

No need to say sorry for going on too long--as you can see, I do it regularly. I feel it's best to be as detailed in the post so everything's understood more easily and less questions need to be asked. I hope others don't mind me being so long & detailed! Any advice is always appreciated!

[Mark Kay]

This isn't the style door but if I go rustic, something like this coloring would be nice... is this hickory or just paint grade maple or cherry or "unselected for color" maple?

Attachment 256094

Thought this was Hickory but it turned out to be Maple!

[Glenn Vaughn]

Here is Kentucky Coffeetree - no stain.


DSC04193.jpg

[Mark Kay]

Here is Kentucky Coffeetree - no stain.


DSC04193.jpg

Thanks Glenn! I have never heard of that wood until last week, I think in the knowledge base at woodweb. What made you choose that? It has that Oaky-Ashy look to me... that's not native near you, is it?

[Glenn Vaughn]

I liked the price - all under $3.00 a BF. The wood was warehous stored for about 30 years and was very stable.

Not a native species but some does grow locally - a neighbor has a tree in the backyard.

I bought all the supplier could find at the time. He thinks there is some more in the warehouse but has not been able to find it yet. The wood is very hard and the grain is vey pronoumced/ The trees are prone to wind shakes but only found a few bords with them.

I have yet to replace the old cabinets and my have to use red oak if I can;t find more 4/4 and a reasonable cost. Shipping from the east coast to Colorado would be expensive.

[Mark Kay]

I think I found this on Google last week... not sure what specie it is, but it's almost the same door style! Any ideas? Color would look great with black counters too.

Haven-Set-108-@900-pixels.jpg

[Paul Symchych]

It looks to me like cherry, with a mix of heartwood and sapwood.
Linseed plus some light brings out similar colors.

[Rick Potter]

Judging by the age, how you described the house, and your not wanting painted cabinets, if you want something fairly light I would suggest red oak, unstained. Getting the mission style look you like, in lighter color, it seems like rift sawed red oak would be a good choice.

Rick Potter

[Mark Kay]

Thanks Paul, and thanks Rick.

Rick, red oak is kind of dated in my neck of the woods, it went out with waterbeds around here. I think you are trying to match the era of the house; my street was lined with huge elm trees, by a leaf ID site I believe Slippery Elm, but most are now gone, replaced by maples by the city 30+ years ago. I sat on my porch and watched one elm about 4ft diameter taken down just a few years ago, thinking of asking for some of it but I wasn't into woodworking then. The floors are all 3/4" hardwood, maybe ash, directly over joists, unlike today with underlayment down first.

Anyway, I'm not that concerned about resto or era look and more concerned with appearance since I'm the one that has to enjoy it and look at it every day. Then there is cost... for example, if I go with, say, hickory, will it's cheaper cost be offset by more expensive plywood cost? Or if I use maple, can I get away with cheaper birch 1/4" plywood panels for the inserts? My head is spinning over all this!

[Michael Wildt]

Looks good, but I agree on the wine rack comment. I'd skip that completely. I'd also make the sink in front of the window and try to make it larger than what you've picked. I get the idea of getting as much storage as possible, but washing a roasting pan in the one you picked will be a chore.

[Mark Kay]

Thanks Michael. The wine rack base cabinet is just something to store things, not wine... it's one of the more expensive cabinets if I were to buy ready to assemble (RTA) cabinets--I've seen them no lower than about $89 and all the way up to twice that, plus many RTA lines don't offer them. I originally intended to go with RTA cabinets and spent probably a year or two searching, comparing features & prices, making a spreadsheet of prices & available cabinets for each style, making up the layout in software, etc, and I'd often find a style I liked but it was missing something that a different style offered. For example, some lines didn't have 9" wide cabs... some didn't have 90" tall pantries... some no plate racks... some no pullouts or appliance garages... many no "wine" bases that we're talking about or 6" fillers. So I decided to do things myself. I already made the wine unit. Otherwise it would have just been a 6" filler to keep the adjacent base cab 18"...

Some lines also had a horizontal wall cabinet that was 30-36" wide with 4 or 6 glide-less drawers or cubby openings, like the wine unit turned horizontally but only 12" deep. That was another expensive one, if available. I incorporated that idea to the right of the sink, then went custom & changed it to 6 horizontal openings to use as a mail center. I may change this again to hold some cups on the left third... or even a place for the knives and ditch the block.

As for the sink, a few things come into play. That pantry side is the back of the house which is a southern wall. It prevents the pipes from freezing, especially a problem if I put the sink by the window. There's also a lean-to greenhouse, albeit with no door right now, from the corner to about the fridge.

If I had a view out the big window, that would have possibly changed things, but the side of a vacant house just 8 feet away is all I can see. Also, the current water & drain lines are about where the left pantry & 4-drawer base cab are, on that south side, so the move is only a couple feet. The sink took me forever to get and isn't returnable either. The main bowl is much larger than my current sink, (about 13x13 now), and by using a corner sink, I free up one contiguous 5-6 feet of counter space.

If I get rid of anything, it may be the appliance garage, but then the KitchenAid mixer will be out all the time...

[Michael Wildt]

Sounds good Mark.

If you're looking for additional ideas and have an Ikea near by I'd suggest you pop by. You can get blum hardware there for drawers/softclose and hinges/softclose as well. Last time I checked it was cheaper than other places. I know folks say hey its particle board etc, but for ideas its a good place.

Do double check for fillers etc so you're not running into door handle issues later.

[Mark Kay]

I'll have to look at Ikea's site for ideas but I checked and there aren't any locations near me--closest is over 200mi.


Thanks again!