Mass production - Poker Chip Trays

[Chris Hedges]

I dont normally make this many of anything but got a commision that requires me to make 144 poker chip trays. Drilling out 12 or 14 is no big beal but I have no plans to drill 720 holes. Lets hear some ideas on how you guys would approach this.

Chris

[Myk Rian]

Several passes on a router table with long boards and a bowl cutter bit, taking a little off at a time.
Cut boards to length, and apply the end caps.
It's going to take a while to do this project because of the multiple passes on the RT.

You could also make the channels on the table saw with the stock skewed.

[Philip Rodriquez]

Have a CNC shop do the work for you.

[Richard Coers]

My favorite kind of post. I got a "commision", then it's "help me" with the design or construction methods. I'm always curious how you get a commision without knowing exactly how you will make it. How can you price the job to get that commision? Drilling would be the last way I would make these. No surface quality at all.

[Chris Hedges]

Thank you for the wonderfully useful response!

[David Hawkins]

What do you have for tools and what horsepower?

[Chris Hedges]

3hp TS, router table with 3.25HP motor. Etc.

[Chris Hedges]

Here are my experiences thus far -

removing meat and using router bit doesn't do it. Router can't be slowed down enough to prevent burning with a bit this size. MLCS is the only company I found with a bit close enough to 40mm and the bit was crap.

Drilling is fairly slow but actually faster then above. Again leaves a less than desirable surface. Even colt maxi cut bit requires a good amount of sanding.

Using any form of cutter used for running cove down the length of the board and then piecing together creates a cross grain situation when glueing on the outer two pieces. Not good for expansion and contraction. Holes need to be cross grain. Even if the cross grain is acceptable, adding in all the cutting and glueing seems like it will only make things slower.

im thinking of piecing this out to a millwork shop and let them figure it out. They can use the CNC!

Thanks for for the replies guys.

chris

[Mark Bolton]

I don't see how gluing together the central piece would create any cross grain issues as compared to running it out of a solid? They will act identically. The suggestions to do a glue up is mainly to break the fluted portion down to a size that could be accommodated by a shaper or small moulder.

By far the best option would be to sub out the fluted portion to a shop that could easily run this for you in long lengths that you could then cut to length and add your ends.

You could however easily do it in a smaller shop setup with a muti pass on a W&H or a single pass on a moulder capable of the full width. Either way would be far simpler than any hogging/drilling/routing/cutting/heavy sanding, option.

All options one will bear heavily ion your margins

[Chris Hedges]

I don't see how gluing together the central piece would create any cross grain issues as compared to running it out of a solid? They will act identically. The suggestions to do a glue up is mainly to break the fluted portion down to a size that could be accommodated by a shaper or small moulder.

By far the best option would be to sub out the fluted portion to a shop that could easily run this for you in long lengths that you could then cut to length and add your ends.

You could however easily do it in a smaller shop setup with a muti pass on a W&H or a single pass on a moulder capable of the full width. Either way would be far simpler than any hogging/drilling/routing/cutting/heavy sanding, option.

All options one will bear heavily ion your margins

Mark - these are boards (trays) 10 inches long and 3 wide. Holes are cut cross grain. If I run a flute down an 8' board and chop it up into pieces to glue together that puts end grain on the long edges. Gluing the side pieces on essentially means gluing long grain to end grain. That'll work until expansion and contraction tears things apart. Hopefully I'm explains myself clearly.

Chris

[Joe Jensen]

I agree with the others here on subbing out the flute work. A CNC would be very easy and fast. You might have only an hour of time in it and spend maybe $200-300. Have them flute long stock, make some extra.

I've done large coves on the table saw and sanding even a small amount is a drag. Doing 100 or more of those trays is NOT something I'd want to sand if I did it on the table saw or with multiple passes on an RT.

I have a good shaper and feeder, the cutter would likely cost $300 or more. You could also go to a molding shop and have them custom cut a knife to do it. I did a large custom cove molding like 20 years ago and the knife was over $100 then plus the labor.

[Bob Vaughan]

Holes are cut cross grain.

Its tedious production work that you should be able to make money on. I did some quick guessing on times and it looks pretty good for selling them for $32.00 each assuming a shop rate of $75.00/hr. You should be able to beat most of the times I've figured in.

Equipment: Good drill press with 6” throw, carbide tipped multi-spur bit, spindle sander plus stock processing equipment.
720 holes at 1 hole per minute = 12 hrs
setup for jigs= 6 hrs
sanding 6 hrs
stock prep 4 hrs
finishing 8 hrs
assembly 4 hrs
cutting outside strips 10 hrs
50 hrs

150 bf 8/4 stock @ 4.00 $600.00
tooling $250.00
Shop labor (50 hrs @ 75.00 3750.00
Total 4600.00
Per unit 32.00

[Chris Hedges]

Its tedious production work that you should be able to make money on. I did some quick guessing on times and it looks pretty good for selling them for $32.00 each assuming a shop rate of $75.00/hr. You should be able to beat most of the times I've figured in.

Equipment: Good drill press with 6” throw, carbide tipped multi-spur bit, spindle sander plus stock processing equipment.
720 holes at 1 hole per minute = 12 hrs
setup for jigs= 6 hrs
sanding 6 hrs
stock prep 4 hrs
finishing 8 hrs
assembly 4 hrs
cutting outside strips 10 hrs
50 hrs

150 bf 8/4 stock @ 4.00 $600.00
tooling $250.00
Shop labor (50 hrs @ 75.00 3750.00
Total 4600.00
Per unit 32.00

$45. Good breakdown though.

[Richard Coers]

Its tedious production work that you should be able to make money on. I did some quick guessing on times and it looks pretty good for selling them for $32.00 each assuming a shop rate of $75.00/hr. You should be able to beat most of the times I've figured in.

Equipment: Good drill press with 6” throw, carbide tipped multi-spur bit, spindle sander plus stock processing equipment.
720 holes at 1 hole per minute = 12 hrs
setup for jigs= 6 hrs
sanding 6 hrs
stock prep 4 hrs
finishing 8 hrs
assembly 4 hrs
cutting outside strips 10 hrs
50 hrs

150 bf 8/4 stock @ 4.00 $600.00
tooling $250.00
Shop labor (50 hrs @ 75.00 3750.00
Total 4600.00
Per unit 32.00

No time allowed to build the jigs for the drill press, table saw, and router. Way short on sanding time (you'll need to sand with at least 3 grits, maybe more. Your time will be used up just changing and cleaning sleeves), way short on assembly time (144 trays in 4 hours is only 1.7 minutes per tray. Remember you will have to be moving parts, gluing, pinning and loading the nail gun), You've only allowed 3.3 minutes per tray for finishing, not many coats of finish and scuff sanding for that amount of time. Once again, remember how you are going to have to stack and move all these trays. You'll need a lot of area to lay them out to dry. You'll need trays or bins to handle all the parts. Does tooling include sand paper sleeves, sleeve cleaner block, sheet sandpaper, glue, and finish? Then add in a $1,400 drill press to get the 6" travel.

[Stew Hagerty]

I didn't notice where you said what the radius of the slots are.

As some have mentioned before, I would hog out the majority of the material either with a dado set or the angled "V" cuts that Dave mentioned:

If you don't have a dado head you could set the blade at a 45; make jig and cut out "V" shaped cuts to lighten up the load on the router

Then, unless you can find the right size round-nose or core-box bits (Whiteside makes a 1" radius), I would have one made. Include the cost in your tooling expense.