Suggestions for storage under sloped ceiling needed

[Kelly Colin Mark]

Background: I am a complete hack who lives in a Victorian row house with lots of funny angles. My wife is begging me to actually build something with all the tools I've bought, that isn't furniture for my shop.

We have a staircase which hits a small landing and then jogs left for a short distance. Under the landing and the latter part of the stairs is a very small storage area which we would like to retain.

Underneath the stairs there is not a lot of headroom so we have things like boxes arrayed randomly and a workout bench.

My wife wants to use this space more efficiently. We're hoping to build some storage along the long wall under the stairs (colored yellow in the diagrams attached).

At the right side of the wall there is a protrusion in the wall that goes about 6" out.

My wife would like the storage to go from the lower part of the wall to the protrusion. I suggested extending the storage past or through the protrusion, making it shallower in that area so as to present a seamless wall of storage, but for now she doesn't like that - she might change in the future.

She's not sure what she wants to put there - it will change as soon as I build it - but she's talking about storage bins, shoe boxes, etc. She says she wants "whatever's fastest and easiest to build and looks nice", even though the first two are somewhat in opposition to the latter. She doesn't like vertical partitions as she thinks they constrain usage of shelf space. I recognize they do offer structural strength.

So since her usage will likely change with the wind, versatility of the space is a big plus.

Our walls are a standard designer white and our floors are a honey-colored, maple laminate.

I'm pretty slow and bad at these things so we don't want something super, super complicated.

I've been thinking about just open shelves, but wonder whether they might look messy (we do use the basement as a sort of living space). I suggested cabinets but she's worried installing and hanging doors might take me forever, and she might be right.

I showed her some floating shelves but they all have vertical sides around their shelves - presumably for strength - and she doesn't like that as she wants to be able to slide boxes in and out.

I have a tiny basement shop. I've got most of the standard Festool stuff (track saw, router, LR32 system) and a tablesaw. No room for a jointer/planer but I do have one at my cottage.

Can any kind souls suggest what they might do given the design constraints ? Design ideas, ideas for materials and finishes which would look good and relatively easy for a beginner ? (I've been told melamine-type finishes are out).

I've also attached a Sketchup file in case anyone feels the urge to fiddle - dimensions are rough but representative.

thanks so much, and Happy Thanksgiving to my friends in the good old USA !



Basement under stairs 2.jpgBasement under stairs 1.jpg

[Art Mulder]

You really need to post a few photos, Kelly, as I had to read your description 3 times and I'm still not sure I quite grasp the space.
For instance, you mention that the stairs jog left... But your diagram, to my eyes, show the side + underside of a stairway that goes up a few steps, hits a landing, and turns RIGHT...

Be that as it may, the requirement to retain access to that spot under the landing (the black square) means that nothing permanent can be installed there. So you need to start about 3ft to the right of that opening??

Why not just put up some open shelves and just make sure that you go buy a whole bunch of identical plastic storage bins. That keeps the dust out and gives a nice consistent look to the shelves.

Another option would be to build shelves with sides and face frames... then you can plan on adding doors at a future date.

[Kelly Colin Mark]

You really need to post a few photos, Kelly, as I had to read your description 3 times and I'm still not sure I quite grasp the space.
For instance, you mention that the stairs jog left... But your diagram, to my eyes, show the side + underside of a stairway that goes up a few steps, hits a landing, and turns RIGHT...

Be that as it may, the requirement to retain access to that spot under the landing (the black square) means that nothing permanent can be installed there. So you need to start about 3ft to the right of that opening??

Why not just put up some open shelves and just make sure that you go buy a whole bunch of identical plastic storage bins. That keeps the dust out and gives a nice consistent look to the shelves.

Another option would be to build shelves with sides and face frames... then you can plan on adding doors at a future date.

Thanks Art. It's hard describing architecture.... when I describe the stairs jogging left, I meant as we go down... I didn't depict the stairs because I'm frankly not that good at it.

Your point is well taken and I'm going to snap a pic right now...

As for the space under the landing - you're right. We would be OK sacrificing a bit of space on the opening there on the right side (facing it head on) if needed to clear whatever we ended up building.

[Kelly Colin Mark]

Here's a picture of what I'm dealing with. Thanks Art for pointing out I really needed a picture - I totally forgot about the dang pillar that's there....

My wife would be absolutely mortified if she found out I was posting a picture of our mess *online*.... but I'm going to say we're just tidying up and that's why it's like that ;-) The stairs are underneath the junk on the left side of the picture...

20131128_155314.jpg

Here's a sketch with dimensions that are fairly accurate after I measured :
Basement under stairs sketch.jpg


Art, as to your question about open shelves - that's something we definitely considered. But she has so many constraints - doesn't want partitions, doesn't want lips to shelves preventing things from sliding in, etc.

And since I've never really built something like this before, I also wasn't sure if the shelves ought to run to the sloped ceiling or not, how deep "optimal" storage can be before it starts getting too deep, how wide any partitioned sections ought to be, what thickness stock I should build with, etc. These are probably things an experienced custom builder might know from looking at it, but I don't. Such a person would probably have a much better idea of how to design so as to maximize versatility.

Also, I'm sure some of us have experience dealing with spouses whose constraints are not necessarily well specified.

Truth is, I'd like to build something nice - not necessarily showpiece quality, but something I wouldn't be embarassed to show. Because if I can... it all adds up to more tools for me later . On the other hand, I don't want to bite off too much.

Thanks for looking.
Underlying sketchup file is attached.

[Jamie Buxton]

If you really need access to the space under the landing, that drives the rest of the design. If you really need that access, then the cabinet which sits to the left of the column must have wheels, so you can move it out of the way to get access. If that cabinet has wheels, and if you want consistent appearance, then the remainder of the cabinetry would need to have wheels. That is, none of the cabinetry is built-in, and it all has wheels.

Me, I'd give up on the little space underneath the landing. It isn't a huge amount of space, and given that you'll have to be wheeling cabinets around to get at it, you're not going to use it much anyhow. Instead, I'd make built-ins. That's really what would look appropriate in that space -- built-in storage cabinets. I'd make them with doors, because what's going to go in there is likely mismatched boxes and bundles and stuff. Doors cover all of that. I'd probably make the cabinets the full depth of the space. Making the cabinets so they're only half the depth of the space is just a waste. You'll lose storage space, and you can't put anything on the floor space in front of the half-depth cabinets anyhow.

So that's what I'd do -- lose the space under the landing, and fill the remainder of the space with built-in cabinetry. The cabinetry would likely be mostly-plywood, and painted. If you want to show off, make them from hardwood-veneer plywood and lumber, and finish them with a clear finish.

[Jamie Buxton]

The link to the SU file doesn't work for me.

However, I just saw a measurement peeking around the post on the last of your posted jpgs. I think it says there's a 12"-wide wall to the right of the opening into the under-landing area. It offers a way to keep access to the under-landing area. So this approach would be to make built-ins along the long wall under the stairs. The built-ins would be perhaps 18" deep. They'd cover some of the opening into the under-landing area, but still leave some width for you to squeeze through. As before, the built-ins would have doors to conceal clutter. You'd have to pay attention to the post when you lay out the doors. Some of them are likely to hit the post, so you want them almost all the way open when they do.

[Kelly Colin Mark]

Jamie - Thanks so much for your reply.

Not sure about the Sketchup file - I was able to download the link myself - I'm running Sketchup 8.0.16846.... I could email it to you if you're interested (if so, PM but don't email me - my domain was hijacked and I can't figure out how to change my email address).

Anyways - I think your idea is pretty close to what I had in mind in rough form. There is indeed an 11" distance from the wall to the right-most side of the opening under the stairs. It's about 35" from the yellow (Sketchup) wall to the pillar.

So we were thinking some sort of built-in that is maybe 11-12" deep, maybe a bit deeper. This would still allow access to the space under the landing for the stuff we rarely use (like xmas and halloween ornaments).

One question is, is whether that depth is enough to be useful ? I feel that really deep cabinets usually end up being a waste of space. But after building a 12" deep cabinet - there's really not much to do with the remaining 2'.

On the other hand, leaving that space would make the room "feel" bigger. None of the files show it, but about 2-3 feet from the foot of the stairs is a wall of closets. If the built-in was *too* deep, then the space between it and the closets might feel like a narrow corridor.

Good point about paying attention to the doors not hitting the post. That's exactly the kind of thing I would only realize as I was trying to install the finished work....

thanks !!!

[Jamie Buxton]

Cabinets which are only 12" deep in that space would be a mistake. 12" deep is the typical depth for a bookcase. What you're more likely to be putting in this storage area is cardboard boxes full of stuff, or those plastic bins. They won't fit on 12" shelves. 18"-20" would really be more useful. The only drawback to 20" is that you'll close off a bit of the opening into the under-landing area. However, you really only need enough width to fit your shoulders through. That's 24" or so, and you'll have that.

[Jamie Buxton]

Here's a bit of an issue. Say you make a door which goes up to your sloped ceiling. It will be taller on the right edge than on the left edge. You must hinge it on the right edge. If you hinge it on the left edge, it will hit the ceiling when you open it.

[Kelly Colin Mark]

Good points, esp about the cabinet depth. I think you're right - we were looking at smaller leather storage bins, which are shallower - but if we want bigger bins, it'd be awful if it was too shallow.

Right now, I'm taking your earlier point about the under-landing space as being minimal. I think that you're right here about not making design constraints for the larger unit based on a small space.

We're also leaning towards a built-in that is not too deep - I didn't note this earlier, but it's a narrow space. I'm afraid that if the cabinets are too deep - that it would present a tunnel-like view of the rest of the space. Also, I find that really deep cabinets are not always so usable.

We'll probably look at the largest bins my wife reasonably foresees putting in there - and then sizing from there.

As for the issues of doors and them hitting the sloped ceiling - again a good point. I'm thinking of building cabinets with doors that go up to where the slope starts, then just having open shelves above. In such a case, would it look funny if the shelves were as deep as the cabinets below, or should they be a little narrower ?

Here's a sketch of what I'm seeing right now :
Under stairs storage idea 1.jpg
One thing I'm hanging up is the width and height of the shelves above. It seems to me that there's probably some design rules about how to size these, but to my eye it looks OK from here.

Also not sure if I can bevel the shelf edges to perfectly match the ceiling on the left side. Would it look bad if the shelves ended square just before hitting the ceiling ?

[Kelly Colin Mark]

Just realized the drawing only shows a cabinet 12" deep. If I bring it out to, say 18", this only leaves about 16-17" from the front of the cabinet to the post. The doors will clear the post with about 1" to spare, but I'm worried the space between cabinet and post will look or feel absurdly small.

[phil harold]

fastest and easiest to build and looks nice

tell her to pick two...

[Art Mulder]

tell her to pick two...

This.


Personally I'd be inclined to close in the whole area and make it a closet. For easiest access put on two sets of doors, one set in front of the angled area, left of the post. Another set to the right. Then you can put deep shelves on the right for boxes + storage. On the left, keep it mostly open with loose stuff/boxes and you can still access the space under the landing.

[Todd Burch]

Here's an easy solution. Cabinets could be built-in, or standalone and set in place, and could be built as two pieces for ease of install, installed at different times, and not so tall so you don't have to deal with angles.

I didn't show doors or shelves, but you could work that out, I'm sure. Add moldings as desired.

Phase 2 could be open and shallower shelves to the left of this casework.

Todd

[Art Mulder]

Personally I'd be inclined to close in the whole area and make it a closet. For easiest access put on two sets of doors, one set in front of the angled area, left of the post. Another set to the right. Then you can put deep shelves on the right for boxes + storage. On the left, keep it mostly open with loose stuff/boxes and you can still access the space under the landing.

Like this:
under-stairs1.jpg under-stairs2.jpg

In the sketchup I was lazy and left the opening on the left as it was. But in reality I would probably build out the jam a touch so that the opening was the same 40" as on the right, so that the doors are the same width as those on the right.