Help with wire nuts

[stevo wis]

This might seem trivial, but what is the correct way to twist 3 or more wires with a wire nut? I just got finished with a ceiling box that had 3 12 gauge wires in each nut. I was working overhead , using a flashlight, and hanging on to a light fixture and it literally took me an hour because one wire would always seem to slip out.

I stripped each of the wires about 1/2 inch and then tried to twist on the nut. The wires were somewhat twisted from before and I tried to straighten them and then twist them together.

Should I be twisting them together with a wiring plier before putting on the nut, or just twisting the nut on? Any hints would be much appreciated.
Stevo

[James Conrad]

Use a pair of lineman's pliers to start the twist and an appropriate sized wire nut, and strip more like 5/8. I like these push connectors instead, especially in a crowded box.

[Rudy Ress]

+1 on the push connector.

[Wade Lippman]

+1 on the push connector.

+2. Twisting three wires is a pain; but yes, use linemans pliers if you insist on doing it. I bought some push connectors on Ebay designed for stranded wire; you push it in and then clamp it. Cool.

It is however fun to see an experienced electrician take 4 wires and casually twist them together.

[Ole Anderson]

Wade Lippman;2254055
It is however fun to see an experienced electrician take 4 wires and casually twist them together

3, no problem, 4 is a challenge. A real challenge is when you have a 15 amp circuit with mixed 14 and 12 ga wire.

[Julie Moriarty]

And that's why electricians have a love/hate relationship with push-in connectors. They are easy to use but there's an element of "I don't know" attached to them. The biggest problem I've had with them is you have little control over the surface connection. There is a small metal "blade" that is being pressed down on the conductor by whatever pressure the connector offers. Much of the surface of the wire is untouched. And that contact surface can score the strands and sever them.

Back in the 70's (if my memory serves me correctly) the back stab option began surfacing on switches and receptacles. I remember as an apprentice it being a perfectly acceptable means to terminate devices. Today pretty much every municipality around here has outlawed them. That may be the fate of push-in connectors, but maybe not. I retired in 2008. At that time most of the electricians I worked with wouldn't use push-in wire connectors and said they never would. I was in complete agreement. I have boxes of wire nuts of every size so there's no reason for me to buy any new-fangled products just to try them out. Wire nuts have never failed me. I can't say the same for push-in connectors.

But the push-in connector has been used by fixture manufacturers for decades. I have no idea how they have fared during that time but I do know that we, as electricians, would usually cut them out and use Ole's method for final terminations.

[Phil Thien]

And that's why electricians have a love/hate relationship with push-in connectors. They are easy to use but there's an element of "I don't know" attached to them.

OTOH, I've removed wiring performed by licensed electricians and have literally had stranded wires fall right out of wire nuts with no coaxing at all.

The biggest problem I've had with them is you have little control over the surface connection. There is a small metal "blade" that is being pressed down on the conductor by whatever pressure the connector offers. Much of the surface of the wire is untouched. And that contact surface can score the strands and sever them.

The metal blade pushing down on the connector is typically pushing the wire into a conductive bed. The surface area of the connection is probably equal that of two round wires twisted together.

Back in the 70's (if my memory serves me correctly) the back stab option began surfacing on switches and receptacles. I remember as an apprentice it being a perfectly acceptable means to terminate devices. Today pretty much every municipality around here has outlawed them. That may be the fate of push-in connectors, but maybe not. I retired in 2008. At that time most of the electricians I worked with wouldn't use push-in wire connectors and said they never would. I was in complete agreement. I have boxes of wire nuts of every size so there's no reason for me to buy any new-fangled products just to try them out. Wire nuts have never failed me. I can't say the same for push-in connectors.

But the push-in connector has been used by fixture manufacturers for decades. I have no idea how they have fared during that time but I do know that we, as electricians, would usually cut them out and use Ole's method for final terminations.

I think the big difference between a receptacle backstab, and a push-type connector, is the material used. I believe the push-on connectors are typically using a spring steel that will not relax over time.

I think wire nuts on twisted solid conductors is pretty much the gold standard (short of soldering). But when connecting stranded to stranded or stranded to solid, I think push nuts vastly outperform wire nuts and even solid to solid I'd say they're approaching a conventional wire nut.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Sure the right size wire nut is being used? To small, and it will be tougher to get three to work right. Personally I don't use the push connect stuff, a screw up and all of a sudden you have to find a couple more inches of wire.

[Paul McGaha]

I agree with July that a twisted splice with a wire nut (actually a Buchannan for all you sparky's out there) is the best. It's bullet proof.

That said, here where I work they use the push in connectors by the thousands. They seem to work well enough to continue to use them.

PHM

[Steve Meliza]

I had no idea there was so much drama associated with the lowly wire nut. Just get yourself a box of yellow and a box of red Ideal wing-nuts and that will cover pretty much any homeowner need. I've used plenty of the yellow wing-nuts to join three strands of #12 wire without any issues at all.

When done make sure no bare copper sticks out of the wire nut and tug on each wire individually to ensure they are all firmly secured. It used to be a simple thing.

[Ole Anderson]

Dykes: outdated term for side cutting electrician's or linemen's pliers (sidecutters). Got it. Reminds me of an episode of Chicago Hope...

[Julie Moriarty]

3, no problem, 4 is a challenge. A real challenge is when you have a 15 amp circuit with mixed 14 and 12 ga wire.

It requires a gentle touch Ole. If you take the sidecutters and gently twist the bundle, it will begin forming a spiral. Look at how they are forming and make sure they aren't overlapping but rather forming a spiral. As the spiral forms, you apply more pressure until it's tight but don't do that until you see an even spiral. Allow the jaws of the sidecutters to slip over the bundle while twisting, without breaking the strands. Again, a gentle touch. Keep doing that until it stays together without a wire nut.

If there are any light-gauged wires, like fixture wires, leave them out of the first twist. Once all the larger wires are twisted tightly, use your fingers to press the smaller wires into the voids of the twist. Make sure the bare conductors of the smaller wires extend past the top of the larger wires. This gives them a better chance of allowing the wire nut to grab them.

[John Lanciani]

Use a pair of lineman's pliers to start the twist and an appropriate sized wire nut, and strip more like 5/8. I like these push connectors instead, especially in a crowded box.

One inportant note, the linked connectors are not rated for stranded wire unless you tin the stands together. they're nice, but not a universal solution.

[James Conrad]

One inportant note, the linked connectors are not rated for stranded wire unless you tin the stands together. they're nice, but not a universal solution.

Good point, some of them are not designed or stranded wire. A tip for joining solid and stranded wire is to put the stranded wire into the wire nut first, then push your solid wire in and tighten.

[Phil Thien]

One inportant note, the linked connectors are not rated for stranded wire unless you tin the stands together. they're nice, but not a universal solution.

Incorrect, these work with stranded wire. If you check this sheet, you will see the compatible stranding patterns:

http://www.idealindustries.com/media...h-in_32-34.pdf

If your wire is finely stranded (like a lamp cord) you should NOT tin the ends and use these connectors anyway, as I'm pretty sure none of the push type connectors are approved for tinned ends. If you need to connect to finely stranded wire, the spring lever connectors are a better bet.