Construction Grade Lumber for Furniture?

[Mike Olson]

So, as for Lumber yards having better advice... I Just came from a real lumber yard where I asked the MANAGER "I need a few 2x that has an orange color, i think Fir but I'll know it when I see it..."
his reply "That's called green fir, you don't want that stuff. You want the white stuff, it's the same thing as it turns white after it's kiln dried"

AHHHH..... NO!

Went into Home Depot and found 2x10x8 and finally took better note of the exact type. It's Douglas Fir. So, if you plan on building anything nice from construction lumber make sure you get Douglas Fir. http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-...s/douglas-fir/

[Steve Collins]

[Qo
UQUOTE=Art Mann;2274498]I suppose all those people who object to culling lumber also occasionally buy rotten produce at the grocery stored all in the name of fairness. Where I live, the good builders don't tolerate shoddy material from big box stores or lumber yards.

False analogy. Produce at the grocery store is arranged and displayed in a manner to allow for picking. A better analogy would be picking through the pre packed bags of fruit and making a bag of all the perfect ones.
l[/QUOTE]

Huh? You lost me here. When I wish to purchase one onion at the grocery this often involves sorting through them. The bin has layers that are 2 to 3 deep in onions. When I sort through lumber the same basic method of sorting is used. Look at one and place it either on my cart or back on the stack. What does this have to do with pre packaged products?

[johnny means]

False analogy. Produce at the grocery store is arranged and displayed in a manner to allow for picking. A better analogy would be picking through the pre packed bags of fruit and making a bag of all the perfect ones.
l

Huh? You lost me here. When I wish to purchase one onion at the grocery this often involves sorting through them. The bin has layers that are 2 to 3 deep in onions. When I sort through lumber the same basic method of sorting is used. Look at one and place it either on my cart or back on the stack. What does this have to do with pre packaged products?[/QUOTE]

Fruit at the grocery store isnt stacked 40 layers deeqp, seperated by partitions every 5 layers or so. When you put a peice of fruit back your leaving the pile in the same shape it was in when you got there. I've seen stacks of 2xs that look like pick up sticks because some cheapskate wants to find the plum in the pie. No matter how you look at it the practice of culling construction lumber for the clear stuff is an attempt to get something that you're not paying for. I, for one, am tired of having to deal with products that are designed and engineered around tightwad consumerism. It's frustrating and more expensive in thelong run.

[Art Mann]

It is entirely possible that different big box stores do things differently. What I usually see at my Home Depot is a separate rack that contains the rejects from where people have picked through and removed the better quality material. The reject rack is color code priced anywhere from 30% to 80% less than the standard material racks. This same rack also contains custom cut material that wasn't accepted. I have bought materials from this rack many times because, for example, I needed short 2X4s and could afford to cut out and discard the bad part and still come out ahead. I once bought a stack of a dozen or so custom cut 2 X 3 foot pieces of pegboard for $0.50 each. The only problem I see with this system is that the store is getting his customer to grade his lumber rather than his supplier.

[Mark Bolton]

It is entirely possible that different big box stores do things differently. What I usually see at my Home Depot is a separate rack that contains the rejects from where people have picked through and removed the better quality material. The reject rack is color code priced anywhere from 30% to 80% less than the standard material racks. This same rack also contains custom cut material that wasn't accepted. I have bought materials from this rack many times because, for example, I needed short 2X4s and could afford to cut out and discard the bad part and still come out ahead. I once bought a stack of a dozen or so custom cut 2 X 3 foot pieces of pegboard for $0.50 each. The only problem I see with this system is that the store is getting his customer to grade his lumber rather than his supplier.

I dont think thats really any different than any yard Ive dealt with actually. I would think the big boxes do it to, but most small/independent yards when picking mixed units of material for delivery realize that certain boards, if shipped, are just going to come back, so they cull them out while building loads for delivery. Then walk-in customers cull some more, and at the end of the day the yard guys straighten up piles and remove the really rough stuff. This gets set aside and sold at a discount.

The yard I deal with presently takes the time to bundle this material in like sized/length packs. They then number and list these packs at the construction desk. You can walk out and look over these packs, get an idea of the condition of whats in there (ends are all twisted, checks, shark bites, and so on) and decide if the price they have for the pack is reasonable to you.

Im not being mean Art, but what your missing in this (my) scenario is that some ding dong likely STILL walks in there and says "well there is 28 2x6 10's in that cull pack and I only need 16, can you cut it open and let me pick the best 16 of the junk and sell them to me?". The answer is, NO, its a pack. The same theory applies to the rack material, your gonna get some good, and some bad, and thats excactly what your paying for. #2 2x4's are not priced for "all perfect and straight", they are priced for the #2 grade they are stamped with.

In your scenario, home depot (or otherwise) is not relying on its customers to grade its lumber. That was already done for them at the mill. The material all met grade, and likely still meets the grade. Even the cull! Because in the grade is a certain allowance for defect and the customer is getting what is being paid for.

This has been the point of this entire last half of this thread. Whether you realize it or not, when your buying dimensional framing lumber, your buying #2. Virtually no one stocks #1 but it is most definitely available. #1 would be nearly all clean, 4 sharp corners, less knots, and so on. That said, if there were a lift of #2 2x4's for 2.25/ea and right next to it a lift of #1's for 5.25/ea, I can almost guarantee you which the majority would buy.

At my local lowes this is crystal clear. They have the standard units of #2 SPF 2x4x8's and then down the way they have a unit of fir 2x4's all of which are clean, clear, and ready do go, but they are a buck and a half more. They just sit there.

The point is, and again its completely up to the retailer so this is all just conversation, the customer shouldnt be able to (or perhaps in good conscience shouldnt) dig though the pile of lesser grade material to find the handfull of beauties and leave the rest for everyone else. You should have to walk down to the +1.50 rack and pay for what you get.

I realize full well that very few yards stock #1, or both SPF and fir, but the point is the same. Cull is cull, junk, twisted, bowed, cracked, and so on. But sorting out for quartered, god forbid a moisture meter, and so on is a bit of a stretch when your buying low grade material to begin with.

[Duane Meadows]

If you buy lumber sorted(culled, whatever) and have no return, or take it as it comes and have to return what you can't use, seems to me the end result is about the same to the lumber yard ultimately. If I can't use it and know that I can't use it... no point in dragging it home, then having to drag it back. If I know that I will cut a lot of smaller pieces from the lumber, I am not near as picky.

If I am loading the lumber on to a cart myself, I am not taking something I can't use. If I am buying 1000 2x4's and having them loaded onto my vehicle(or delivered), I take my chances. The more work I have to do the pickier I can be... sorry(not really) if you don't like that!

For furniture, probably worth looking at a better grade lumber. Be tough to find in a lot of areas, I know it is around here!

As to the original subject of the post, yes I have built furniture from construction grade(1X, not 2X) lumber. Looks nicer and definitely will out last most of the pre-assembled stuff you can buy! Without craftsmanship, you can buy as expensive of lumber as you wish, and still end up with crap!

[Art Mann]

The pine framing lumber I see at the big box stores would not grade as #2. It is a mix of #2, #3 and worse. I know about grades because I separated lumber at a huge Kimberley Clark (the Kleenex people) sawmill one summer during my college years. If I were unable to sort through the mish mash of lumber I typically see, I would never shop at big box stores at all. Neither would a lot of other people. The store managers where I go know that and allow sorting as a means to sell lumber to people who care about quality. I have completely stopped buying #2 and better 5/4 decking lumber at these places, even though they allow sorting, because the quality is still pretty much unusable. Instead, I order from a real lumber yard and they deliver material that is really #2 and better grade. Just recently, I ordered a selection of #1 kiln dried PT lumber because I was rebuilding a porch on the front of a house and it really needed to look nice and be painted immediately. It never occurred to me to even look at, let alone buy from, a big box store.

[Cody Kemble]

Huh? You lost me here. When I wish to purchase one onion at the grocery this often involves sorting through them. The bin has layers that are 2 to 3 deep in onions. When I sort through lumber the same basic method of sorting is used. Look at one and place it either on my cart or back on the stack. What does this have to do with pre packaged products?

Fruit at the grocery store isnt stacked 40 layers deeqp, seperated by partitions every 5 layers or so. When you put a peice of fruit back your leaving the pile in the same shape it was in when you got there. I've seen stacks of 2xs that look like pick up sticks because some cheapskate wants to find the plum in the pie. No matter how you look at it the practice of culling construction lumber for the clear stuff is an attempt to get something that you're not paying for. I, for one, am tired of having to deal with products that are designed and engineered around tightwad consumerism. It's frustrating and more expensive in thelong run.[/QUOTE]

People also seldom buy onions by the gross.